Offensive Line Is Main Priority

[Waldo]

52 minutes ago, BenjaminBreeg said:

Yep, it's clear as day that Bryce creates a lot of problems for the O-line. I see four intermeshing deficiencies in Young's game that directly contribute to the O-line's perceived lack of performance:

– One, Young's dropbacks are way too shallow. On his dropbacks, he usually saunters backward for a few short steps and then leisurely stops. I mean, WTF, right? How are the interior linemen supposed to protect him when he doesn't give them enough depth to block effectively?!
– Two, Young's pocket awareness is very poor, which directly leads to his inability to navigate the pocket when it gets dirty. He also seems incapable (or too scared) to climb the pocket on the few occasions where his shallow dropbacks didn't prevent the O-line from creating a path for him to climb and make a throw.
– Three, Young is undersized and lacks athleticism. If they get one hand on him, he's going down, and if he tries to escape, he's quickly chased down and sacked. 
– Four, Young is a slow processor. He holds onto the ball for too damn long which, combined with his lack of pocket awareness and athleticism, translates into more sacks. 

These four deficiencies all feed into each other and create an unfair impression that our O-line is subpar. The fact is that our O-line on average provides Young with 2.5 seconds of pocket time, which is very respectable; only six teams afford their QBs more time in the pocket than us. I'd even venture to say that our O-line over-performed given the aforementioned deficiencies at the quarterback position.

P.S. I'm surprised that our linemen haven't cornered Bryce in a dark alley and smacked him around a little.

Young isn't playing the same game anymore so everything that worked for him then is now gone. I don't think he can see much so his elusiveness and processing are heavily affected at this level and the lack of athleticism leads to no good answers. Everything looks to be his height and poor footwork...which also might because of his height. 

They will still roll him out next year but if they call it was it is during the 2024 season and just admit he is a bust then there is hope for 2025. We would be winning more with Dalton and the only reason they don't play him is that they can't admit they were massively wrong yet. 

[Gapanthersfan]

I think he has a shallow drop back because he knows his arm strength is not adequate for the nfl. If he takes a deep drop, it adds another 8 to 10 yards to his throw. His realistic ‘NFL open’ distance throw is 30 yards, maybe. He just doesn’t have the ability to fire it in when it needs to be.

Watch how other NFL QBs play from the shotgun. It’s usually a longer throw that’s fired in there. If you don’t have a fastball, playing out of shotgun in the NFL is going to look exactly like what we’ve got. 

I think he’s dropping back, and if the first read is any more than 15 yards deep, and he’s 10 yards back from the LOS in shotgun, with his lack of velocity, it’s going to be iffy. NFL corners will close fast. By the time he’s on to his second read, it’s now too late as Icky’s beat like a drum. His best chance is to break contain, run laterally to the LOS and hope his guy has posted up wide open, or running wide open. There are so many drop backs where he looks like he’s about to pull the trigger but doesn’t. 

He needs to come back next season looking like he found where the weight room is and get serious with his mechanics and realize that it’s just something he’s going to have to do to have any chance in the NFL. get him plugged in with Swole Bones. 

His confidence will improve as his velocity improves. Right now he has 0 confidence. 

[raleigh-panther]

1 hour ago, BenjaminBreeg said:

Yep, it's clear as day that Bryce creates a lot of problems for the O-line. I see four intermeshing deficiencies in Young's game that directly contribute to the O-line's perceived lack of performance:

– One, Young's dropbacks are way too shallow. On his dropbacks, he usually saunters backward for a few short steps and then leisurely stops. I mean, WTF, right? How are the interior linemen supposed to protect him when he doesn't give them enough depth to block effectively?!
– Two, Young's pocket awareness is very poor, which directly leads to his inability to navigate the pocket when it gets dirty. He also seems incapable (or too scared) to climb the pocket on the few occasions where his shallow dropbacks didn't prevent the O-line from creating a path for him to climb and make a throw.
– Three, Young is undersized and lacks athleticism. If they get one hand on him, he's going down, and if he tries to escape, he's quickly chased down and sacked. 
– Four, Young is a slow processor. He holds onto the ball for too damn long which, combined with his lack of pocket awareness and athleticism, translates into more sacks. 

These four deficiencies all feed into each other and create an unfair impression that our O-line is subpar. The fact is that our O-line on average provides Young with 2.5 seconds of pocket time, which is very respectable; only six teams afford their QBs more time in the pocket than us. I'd even venture to say that our O-line over-performed given the aforementioned deficiencies at the quarterback position.

P.S. I'm surprised that our linemen haven't cornered Bryce in a dark alley and smacked him around a little.

this 1,000,000 times 

thank you for succinctly quantifying what our eyes see 

how in the name of God in the pre draft process did all these high paid scouts, Directors of pro personnel, GM and staff,  and all star coaching staff have ‘conviction’ on this player and not see these things …

…unless they were told to not see them 

surely, a dinner was not that transformational 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by raleigh-panther

[Gapanthersfan]

1 hour ago, BenjaminBreeg said:

(Continued from post above...)

Here's a great example of a textbook dropback and proper footwork in navigating the pocket (0:20 to 1:44 in the video).

 

Stroud knows he has every throw. He never has to quest his ability to get it there without the route being jumped. 

Bryce only has a few, maybe. he’s just not confident that he can make the throw. 

Bama open goes in the first round and we won’t have the resources for that in a while. If he needs a first round TE, WR, and LT to feel comfortable .. then we’ve got trouble. 
 

I really do like the guy, but he needs serious strength, agility and footwork training. I’m holding out that he can get there if he puts in some serious work to do so. 
 

 

[BenjaminBreeg]

43 minutes ago, Gapanthersfan said:

I think he has a shallow drop back because he knows his arm strength is not adequate for the nfl. If he takes a deep drop, it adds another 8 to 10 yards to his throw. His realistic ‘NFL open’ distance throw is 30 yards, maybe. He just doesn’t have the ability to fire it in when it needs to be.

Yep, this is likely the case.

Bryce has never been accurate on deep throws. During his best statistical year at Alabama, Bryce completed only 36.1% of passes 20 yards or longer. That is freaking atrocious. For comparison, Tua's completion rate at Alabama on passes 20 yards or longer was 57.1%, and Mac Jones' was 58%. 

Yikes, how did our evaluators miss this red flag?

20-yard throws	Comp.	Att.	%	Yards	Y/A	Y/C	Drop
2021: Young	10	33	36.1%	416	12.6	41.6	9%
2020: Jones	29	50	58%	1,279	25.6	44.1	8%
2019: Tua	17	35	48.6%	659	18.8	38.8	3%
2018: Tua	24	42	57.1%	944	22.5	39.3	2%
Source: SECStatCat

[Bear Hands]

@BenjaminBreeg @Gapanthersfannice posts, good adds to the convo. 

Makes you wonder how much is truly pass pro issues vs the guy in the pocket.

I’ve also seen a lot of people allude to the zone v power gap discussion again. The “scheme isn’t right” point is still kind of a dead end for me bc we’re aiming at running a spread zone for Bryce with some RPO. We simply aren’t going to have this kid running a power heavy approach. 

Lots of factors at play. And looking back, the pass protection really wasn’t all that bad against TB.  
 

Notable-Bozeman is still having discipline issues and is just getting bullied by dudes. He also just misses assignments some snaps. I think it’s more than a blocking style issue for him right now.

[Selltheteamtepper]

3 hours ago, Waldo said:

It was always a QB issue combined with the rest of the issues. 

They just can't admit that yet even if it's obvious. 

By admitting it they will be resigned to the truth that next year is a lost year as well, and the multi-year rebuild doesn’t even begin for another 2 years. My only hope now is that things get so bad Tepper sells, at very least steps away from operations.

[uncfan888]

57 minutes ago, Selltheteamtepper said:

By admitting it they will be resigned to the truth that next year is a lost year as well, and the multi-year rebuild doesn’t even begin for another 2 years. My only hope now is that things get so bad Tepper sells, at very least steps away from operations.

True that, big kat

[Waldo]

2 hours ago, Selltheteamtepper said:

By admitting it they will be resigned to the truth that next year is a lost year as well, and the multi-year rebuild doesn’t even begin for another 2 years. My only hope now is that things get so bad Tepper sells, at very least steps away from operations.

With Tepper taking a step back, a new GM and HC then the rebuild could theoretically start. No 1st but they could start putting their thing together and try for another QB in 25 if Young is what he looks like in 24 (If he is then there is not a lot of reasons to keep playing him at some point and it's whoever takes the starting spot). 

Admitting it just gets the BS over and gets to either fixing it or doing more terrible things.

Tepper isn't selling. He can make profit hand over fist and never sniff a winning. 

[Johnstonny]

Can't say sht about the oline till a new coach comes in with his scheme....we've discussed that sht ad nauseam...hopefully its some what close to what we have now..or add another 2 years to get them.....think Ickeys fat ass is headed to tackle reguardless...

Edited December 8, 2023 by Johnstonny

[Gapanthersfan]

I do believe still that with a proper QB and coaching, this line will be completely fine. This was the best and most cohesive line we’ve had since I can to end remember last season. 
 

worst thing would be to dissolve this line. 

[restNChrist]

On 12/7/2023 at 9:45 AM, heel31ok said:

What a novel idea.The geniuses will never go for such an antiquated approach.Quick question.So possibly it could have helped us to take best Olineman in draft at #9 and then the best qb or multiple picks in a trade this coming draft? 

Absolutely!