It's official: Sean Payton > John Fox

[methodtoll]

I still say that the Panthers are better then the Saints overall despite their records.

The saints do not scare me at all, we usually are pretty good at keeping them on their toes every time we play them.

Our defense is 10x better, even without Peppers. Panthers have a great LBer core, a better secondary, and a superior defensive line and it showed towards the end of the year.

The Panthers offense is just a playmaker and a QB away from making their offense go from decent to greatness.

and hopefully we can somehow get our special teams fixed this year.

I don't think the Saints will be that great this year.

[Gman was right]

what is sean payton's record head to head with foxy?

Who has a super bowl trophy and who doesnt?

It helps that Payton played his backups vs our starters in a couple of meetings.

[Guild]

They both have their pros and cons. Neither are perfect, and Payton made some big gambles (the kind where you either look like a genius or a fool) and they won him the game.

[bigdog10]

Had Indy recovered that onside kick, and then went on to score. Saints fans would have hung Payton.

But they didn't so it's irrelevant.

Gutsy call.

[CatMan72]

Sean Payton is a great coach, no doubt - but if that onside kick had gone the other way and the Saints had lost, that would go down as one of the biggest blunders in the history of the SB. Kudos to Payton for having the balls to hang his whole career on one play.

Jake is/was the kind of leader to the Panthers that Brees is to the Saints. For that reason, if Brees started to strugle like Jake did I'm suspecting Payton would stick with him till the bitter end. When that coach/QB bond is formed, it's tough to break.

[csx]

Brees makes Payton look good. His players executing the onsides kick also makes him look good.

[PantherDude]

Brees makes Payton look good. His players executing the onsides kick also makes him look good.

True true. I wonder how the game would be if Colts didn't go for that stupid 51 yards FG along with Peyton not throwing an INT. at the last minute. Payton should be lucky Brees & Colts's mistake bail him out. But that doesn't mean he is better than Fox. Sure he won the SB, but Gruden won a SB too & he isn't all that great. I can give credit to Brees though, since he carry the team more than anyone else.

[Mage]

He is an exceptional playcaller and play designer but that's not what won them the game tonight. Brees had a couple of days to go through his progressions tonight which if you give to a QB as good as Brees, he will kill you. I don't think there was anything that caught the Colts off guard tonight. The Saint's execution was just better than the Colts. I remember 2 or 3 years ago when we played the Saints at home and we pretty much shut their offense down. Having the players necessary to make the offense work is the most important thing and the Saints had that in spades this year.

It may not have been what won them the game last night, but it definitely was what helped them get to the Super Bowl this season.

For people saying Drew Brees makes Sean Payton look good, are you serious? Drew Brees wasn't a top five or maybe not even top ten quarterback until he got to New Orleans. He's good, but Payton has helped him look even better. Also, he was a guru with Dallas. So he's proven he can have successful offenses even with Brees. Give the man his credit.

[csx]

I just don't look at a play or two in one game as being proof of one coach being good or not. He's a good coach becuase his team went 13-3 and then beat the 3 future HOF QBs in a row to win the Super Bowl. If they hadn't been successful with the onside kick it doesn't make him a bad coach either.

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

Yeah you all realize that, had Hank Baskett just fallen on that onside kick, it'd be Colts ball near midfield and we'd all be on here calling Sean Payton a retard, right? There's plenty more evidence out there for Sean Payton being a great coach outside of one play that would have failed eight or nine times out of ten.

[csx]

For people saying Drew Brees makes Sean Payton look good, are you serious? Drew Brees wasn't a top five or maybe not even top ten quarterback until he got to New Orleans. He's good, but Payton has helped him look even better. Also, he was a guru with Dallas. So he's proven he can have successful offenses even with Brees. Give the man his credit.

A guru? Dallas had very average offenses those years.

Brees only other double digit passer rating was with San Diego. They make each other better.

I'm not saying Payton is not good, I'm just saying Brees allows him to run that type of offense.

[Pejorative Miscreant]

Yeah but Sean Payton is a fine young male. There, end thread.

:iamwithstupid::iamwithstupid:

[Mr. Scot]

What a gutsy call. Payton gave his team the spark that they needed at the time, and it propelled them to victory. John Fox has never been that imaginative and willing to take risks in the regular season, much less the Super Bowl. Payton saw that his team was falling a little flat, and decided to seize the day. He believed that he could surprise the Colts (which he did). He had enough belief in his team---specifically, his offense---that they could still overcome and win the game even if the onside attempt kick failed. He knew what his offense could do if they recovered the ball. He was taking a gamble, but was playing to the strength of his team. I wish that Fox could adapt to the flow and feel of the game like Payton, and not just follow the Foxball script. Granted, it's a little easier to make a call like that when you have Drew Brees as your QB, but Payton was responsible for Brees even being there. Oh, if Fox, could be so imaginative and bold.

Payton's move reminded of another coach's call in his first Super Bowl appearance...

Pretty poorly reasoned.

John Fox made a similar "gutsy call" a while back when he had Chris Gamble try a throwback on a return against the Vikings. It was badly executed and he was pilloried for it.

As London67 pointed out, if Hank Baskett had simply fallen on that ball, it's highly possible we could have all been calling Payton an idiot today.

Every coach in the league makes good decisions and bad ones. And even if your coach makes more good ones than bad, it can all be moot if the players don't execute.

I wanted Fox replaced this season, but even with that in mind i acknowledge that he's a good coach. Are there things I wish he'd do differently? Yes, but I've been watching football long enough to know that judging how good a coach is by whether or not his gambles work out is a poor method.

[OneBadassCat]

Fox has a better philosophy. Payton gambles alot and makes stupid calls, alot of his game works on having things go your way, and more often than not that is what happened this season for the Saints. Plus having a good QB will always make the coach look better than he is. If Fox had Brees or at least a good QB(which Moore may just be) we would be very very hard to beat. But at the same time you could blame Fox for not trying to bring in a guy to challenge Delhomme but that is the type of guy he is, loyal locker room type. We have great talent all around we are just missing a few pieces.