If you're looking for an argument...

[ForJimmy]

3 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

Do you know what a big board is?

It's now so bad that some people won't acknowledge his pre-draft grades/rankings.  You can't change history people he was ranked overall as the top QB prospect.  That doesn't mean it was right, but it is something people should probably simply acknowledge otherwise you look foolish.  It just kind of makes the whole narrative of Tepper forcing a random QB on this team seem a little exaggerated though...

[Seltzer]

1 hour ago, Judo Thoreau said:

Main difference I’ve seen is Stroud’s best college attribute (Deep intermediate accuracy/placement) has translated flawlessly to the NFL, while Bryce’s (Playmaking ability and decision making) hasn’t really shown up. The state of our OL/WRs and a bad system fit don’t help either. 

You cannot throw deep if you don't have time and guys don't get open.  It's simple physics.

Doesn't matter if your name is Bryce Young, CJ Stroud, Cam Newton, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, or Tom Brady.

There should not be anything controversial or hard to understand about that.

The literal only thing the metrics show about Bryce is that he has been incredibly accurate when guys have been open.  

There is no other legitimate, football-based observation you can even make under this level of dysfunction.

He is playing behind the #31 ranked offensive line and the #32 ranked receivers.

I'm not trying to be mean, but so much of this discussion has no basis in reality.

All this theoretical nonsense about Stroud vs. Young is nothing more than hot-take nonsense at this point.

Would it be accurate to say Bryce is superior b/c he won the head-to-head matchup?  And looked markedly better?

Of course not, but so much of this other "analysis" is absolute nonsense either.

I genuinely question the mental acuity of people making these sweeping pronouncements after 10 games as if they have definitely answered anything.

I'm hoping we can actually start legitimately evaluating Bryce now that Reich is gone, hopefully we will have someone actually interested in implementing an offense catered to the players instead of whatever Reich's offensive abomination was.

There is literally nothing to take from the Reich Era other than it was a massive mistake.

And as mad as I am with Tepper's mismanagement of the team, he was right to rip this bandaid off.  Reich looked like he had never coached in his life.  He was obviously not ready to come back coaching.

Finding someone who can actually maximize BY9's ability is what we need.  Whatever this was offensively for the 1st 11 weeks, I don't know, but I just want to flush it and move on.

Are y'all really ready to give up on Bryce after 10 games under the absolute worse conditions I could imagine?  Because if so, please, and I mean this in all seriousness, find another team and QB you think is worthy of cheering for.

Go fanboy for CJ Stroud.  He has undoubtedly been very good as a rookie, but I know 2 things, and the film backs this up 10000%:  1) He has looked way worse under pressure than BY9 2) He faces far, far less pressure than BY9 and has an exponentially better supporting cast

CJ Stroud being successful doesn't change the fact Bryce can/will also be once this dysfunction isn't suffocating him. 

B/c I know damn well Bryce will produce when/if he provided with even the bare requisite around him.

This is the nadir for the Panthers franchise.  Now really is the time to depart, and no one will know.  In all seriousness, just now.

But shoot me now if this place is just going to be nonsensical BY9 bashing... I lived through that for 2.5 years with Cam from 2011- 1st half 2013, and that was with teams with actual talent like Smitty, Olsen, D-Will & J-Stew plus Luke and a badass front 7 on defense.

Winning is the ultimate deodorant, and we haven't done that in 6 years and counting.  That is the biggest issue, along with the meddling owner who is the one constant.

Blaming Bryce IMHO is the literal laziest thing a Panthers fan can do, when he is literally the least responsible for this cascade of ineptitude and failure that has defined this franchise since 2018.

 

[CPF4LIFE]

8 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

It's now so bad that some people won't acknowledge his pre-draft grades/rankings.  You can't change history people he was ranked overall as the top QB prospect.  That doesn't mean it was right, but it is something people should probably simply acknowledge otherwise you look foolish.  It just kind of makes the whole narrative of Tepper forcing a random QB on this team seem a little exaggerated though...

Ranked by who? How could he be the top prospect if you just read the Raiders wanted to trade up for stroud? They thought he was generational im pretty sure that means they thought he was th top QB prospect. Everybody has their own rankings and nobody is guaranteed to be right. Simms and other media reported that there were teams that were not as high on Bryce as others, clearly the Raiders were one of them. Not acknowledging this is whats foolish.

[Seltzer]

4 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

Ranked by who? How could he be the top prospect if you just read the Raiders wanted to trade up for stroud? They thought he was generational im pretty sure that means they thought he was th top QB prospect. Everybody has their own rankings and nobody is guaranteed to be right. Simms and other media reported that there were teams that were not as high on Bryce as others, clearly the Raiders were one of them. Not acknowledging this is whats foolish.

You realize both those things can easily be true, right?

1) BY9 was the consensus #1 QB prospect

2) Not every single team or scout had BY9 rated #1

Like someone said, and I'm legitimately not trying to be mean or snarky, but you know what consensus means, right?

It doesn't mean that it was "unanimous" in that every single scout, etc. thought BY9 was the #1 QB prospect, but it does mean that an overwhelming majority of them (Panthers included) thought that way.

And I will say, anyone saying anything like this (I would have taken X over X) after the fact is suspect as hell, and it doesn't even mean anything as a practical matter.

BY9 was objectively and unequivocally the consensus-rated #1 prospect.  I know we live in a world where people feel entitled to create their own facts, but you only need to go back a few months to valid this fact as being true.

I'm sure there are plenty of people claiming now they had Stroud ranked ahead (and they may have although again BY9 was overwhelmingly the favorite by almost every publication and media outlet so I would take that with a grain of salt).

[CPF4LIFE]

12 minutes ago, Seltzer said:

You realize both those things can easily be true, right?

1) BY9 was the consensus #1 QB prospect

2) Not every single team or scout had BY9 rated #1

Like someone said, and I'm legitimately not trying to be mean or snarky, but you know what consensus means, right?

It doesn't mean that it was "unanimous" in that every single scout, etc. thought BY9 was the #1 QB prospect, but it does mean that an overwhelming majority of them (Panthers included) thought that way.

And I will say, anyone saying anything like this (I would have taken X over X) after the fact is suspect as hell, and it doesn't even mean anything as a practical matter.

BY9 was objectively and unequivocally the consensus-rated #1 prospect.  I know we live in a world where people feel entitled to create their own facts, but you only need to go back a few months to valid this fact as being true.

I'm sure there are plenty of people claiming now they had Stroud ranked ahead (and they may have although again BY9 was overwhelmingly the favorite by almost every publication and media outlet so I would take that with a grain of salt).

Once again...consensus by who? I just randomly googled nfl prospect rankings 2023 and saw a espn list where bryce wasnt even top 5. Im not trying to be snarky when i say this but you dont seem to grasp there is a clear distinction in trying to turn an OPINION into a FACT. Him being consensus 1 is all based off who YOU chose to listen too or whos opinion you valued which would lead to trying to you trying to turn it into a fact. There is also a clear distinction in determining top QB prospect and top prospect period in the class. But whatever at the end of the day. This is a ongoing circle 

[Jackie Lee]

55 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

It's now so bad that some people won't acknowledge his pre-draft grades/rankings.  You can't change history people he was ranked overall as the top QB prospect.  That doesn't mean it was right, but it is something people should probably simply acknowledge otherwise you look foolish.  It just kind of makes the whole narrative of Tepper forcing a random QB on this team seem a little exaggerated though...

This is the same guy that bought into the Rhule hype. He literally might base all of his decisions off of ESPN

[Jackie Lee]

43 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

Ranked by who? How could he be the top prospect if you just read the Raiders wanted to trade up for stroud? They thought he was generational im pretty sure that means they thought he was th top QB prospect. Everybody has their own rankings and nobody is guaranteed to be right. Simms and other media reported that there were teams that were not as high on Bryce as others, clearly the Raiders were one of them. Not acknowledging this is whats foolish.

Google 2023 nfl mock draft and every link on the 1st page has Bryce as the no.1 pick, whether they thought he was the best or they were just assuming that's who we wanted I'm not gonna read through all that

[ForJimmy]

28 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

Google 2023 nfl mock draft and every link on the 1st page has Bryce as the no.1 pick, whether they thought he was the best or they were just assuming that's who we wanted I'm not gonna read through all that

Google 2023 Big boards or player rankings. It’s not that big of a deal as they aren’t always right, but we can’t simply deny history because we hate the decision.

[Jackie Lee]

Speaking of big boards what was Daniel Jeremiah watching? Footwork is and has been ugly and lazy

The 2021 Heisman Trophy winner has quick feet in his setup and effectively marries his eyes and feet.

[ForJimmy]

39 minutes ago, CPF4LIFE said:

Once again...consensus by who? I just randomly googled nfl prospect rankings 2023 and saw an espn list where bryce wasnt even top 5. Im not trying to be snarky when i say this but you dont seem to grasp there is a clear distinction in trying to turn an OPINION into a FACT. Him being consensus 1 is all based off who YOU chose to listen too or whos opinion you valued which would lead to trying to you trying to turn it into a fact. There is also a clear distinction in determining top QB prospect and top prospect period in the class. But whatever at the end of the day. This is a ongoing circle 

Consensus by the same analyst/commentators/former scouts/coaches/GMs that ranked Lawrence, Luck, Burrow, and yes busts like Russell as the top QB of their class. There are several links on here that consolidate multiple opinions. It’s just a majority of them not all. I’m glad you brought up Simms as he had Wilson as his QB1 over Lawrence, that doesn’t mean Lawrence wasn’t the consensus QB1 in that draft.  For every one that doesn’t have Young as the top QB there are four that do. This in no way validates him or the struggles he is having these guys are wrong a lot. QB success in the NFL is very tough to predict. 

[uncfan888]

1 hour ago, Seltzer said:

It's a shame that legit voices with something to offer like yours will inevitably be drowned out by the ceaseless trolling that seems to animate this place these days.

 

It's cuz they made one a mod

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, Jackie Lee said:

Speaking of big boards what was Daniel Jeremiah watching? Footwork is and has been ugly and lazy

The 2021 Heisman Trophy winner has quick feet in his setup and effectively marries his eyes and feet.

No one saying they are right. We just can’t pretend like this wasn’t the case because he was more than not the top ranked QB. 

[LinvilleGorge]

1 hour ago, Seltzer said:

You cannot throw deep if you don't have time and guys don't get open.  It's simple physics.

Doesn't matter if your name is Bryce Young, CJ Stroud, Cam Newton, Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, or Tom Brady.

There should not be anything controversial or hard to understand about that.

The literal only thing the metrics show about Bryce is that he has been incredibly accurate when guys have been open.  

There is no other legitimate, football-based observation you can even make under this level of dysfunction.

He is playing behind the #31 ranked offensive line and the #32 ranked receivers.

I'm not trying to be mean, but so much of this discussion has no basis in reality.

All this theoretical nonsense about Stroud vs. Young is nothing more than hot-take nonsense at this point.

Would it be accurate to say Bryce is superior b/c he won the head-to-head matchup?  And looked markedly better?

Of course not, but so much of this other "analysis" is absolute nonsense either.

I genuinely question the mental acuity of people making these sweeping pronouncements after 10 games as if they have definitely answered anything.

I'm hoping we can actually start legitimately evaluating Bryce now that Reich is gone, hopefully we will have someone actually interested in implementing an offense catered to the players instead of whatever Reich's offensive abomination was.

There is literally nothing to take from the Reich Era other than it was a massive mistake.

And as mad as I am with Tepper's mismanagement of the team, he was right to rip this bandaid off.  Reich looked like he had never coached in his life.  He was obviously not ready to come back coaching.

Finding someone who can actually maximize BY9's ability is what we need.  Whatever this was offensively for the 1st 11 weeks, I don't know, but I just want to flush it and move on.

Are y'all really ready to give up on Bryce after 10 games under the absolute worse conditions I could imagine?  Because if so, please, and I mean this in all seriousness, find another team and QB you think is worthy of cheering for.

Go fanboy for CJ Stroud.  He has undoubtedly been very good as a rookie, but I know 2 things, and the film backs this up 10000%:  1) He has looked way worse under pressure than BY9 2) He faces far, far less pressure than BY9 and has an exponentially better supporting cast

CJ Stroud being successful doesn't change the fact Bryce can/will also be once this dysfunction isn't suffocating him. 

B/c I know damn well Bryce will produce when/if he provided with even the bare requisite around him.

This is the nadir for the Panthers franchise.  Now really is the time to depart, and no one will know.  In all seriousness, just now.

But shoot me now if this place is just going to be nonsensical BY9 bashing... I lived through that for 2.5 years with Cam from 2011- 1st half 2013, and that was with teams with actual talent like Smitty, Olsen, D-Will & J-Stew plus Luke and a badass front 7 on defense.

Winning is the ultimate deodorant, and we haven't done that in 6 years and counting.  That is the biggest issue, along with the meddling owner who is the one constant.

Blaming Bryce IMHO is the literal laziest thing a Panthers fan can do, when he is literally the least responsible for this cascade of ineptitude and failure that has defined this franchise since 2018.

 

Rewatch week three. It's like you like in a world where that game didn't happen.

[LinvilleGorge]

"consensus"

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2023-nfl-draft-top-10-quarterbacks-2/

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2023/story/_/id/36184202/2023-nfl-draft-jeff-legwold-ranking-top-100-prospects

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/2023-nfl-draft-big-board/