The Athletic - Panthers Indecisiveness

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, WhoKnows said:

Personally, I am sure Tepper is hard to work for and demanding, but he’s also not stupid. 

He is when it comes to football.

And as mentioned above, it's not just the Panthers that are showing signs of a toxic environment. Pretty much all of his sports ventures have shown the same issues.

[rayzor]

28 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

 

Some really huge assumptions here. The only thing we’ve heard is that after 1-5 or so, Tepper started having meetings with Reich. You mentioned getting thrown under the bus. Do you have specific examples? I don’t remember Tepper interviews where he called out Reich or Fitterer.

TBH, this is shaping up just like Rhule. I’m not saying Rhule was incorrectly fired but the Huddle was blaming everything on him. Fitterer shouldn’t be fired, he built a great OL and everything else was Rhule, the devil, and Fitt hasn’t had a chance to blossom on his own. Well, two seasons of more control and draft/trade decisions and it wasn’t all Rhule. Fitt sucked.

Now, Reich is completely indecisive and hoping for 54 yard FGs and he’s not a bad coach, it’s Tepper, the devil causing him to fail. We saw all the media crushing Tepper for putting a winless (at the time) coach to task by OMG having meetings to explain why we suck balls.

Even @Mr. Scot seems to be slowly getting off the Reich bandwagon and maybe this indecisiveness isn’t a Tepper is evil example, maybe, just maybe, Reich isn’t a good enough coach.

I’m not happy with Tepper because his decisions have us where we are but just like we realized with Fitterer, our staff is subpar and is as big a problem as Tepper hurting Frank’s feelings.

when the people you hire keep failing, maybe....just maybe it's you that are the bigger failure.

and he's doing the same thing with his soccer team as well.

when it comes to pro sports teams, he knows how to buy a club. he has yet to show that he knows how to run one well  or hire people to run one well.

[rayzor]

3 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

Personally, I am sure Tepper is hard to work for and demanding, but he’s also not stupid.

he's yet to show that he isn't stupid. 

definitely trending towards the stupid range so far. 

i mean what has he done right? where has he had ANY success at running a pro team?

and you definitely need to add into consideration what happened in rock hill with the failed facility down there. excuses can be made, but then it seems like that's all he's done consistently well is make excuses for failed attempts at running either team.

[WhoKnows]

5 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

When you're the boss and everyone under you keeps failing it's time to look in the mirror.

I 100% agree with this. Tepper has caused this mess. That’s not what this thread was about or why I replied to your post. You blamed Reich’s indecisiveness directly on Tepper. IMHO, that points to Reich not being a good coach. I think Tepper is not to blame for the execution, but the incorrect hires.

Reich failed before and based on that other thread, we’ve seen very similar issues here. Fitterer is making the same bad moves as he did when we blamed Rhule for everything. We aren’t dealing with upper echelon talent failing. We are dealing with an owner who made terrible hires. As much as it’s painful to start from scratch and have to hope Tepper doesn’t screw up again, I still hope we do so there’s a glimmer of hope becaus we have 0 now. 

[WhoKnows]

Just now, rayzor said:

he's yet to show that he isn't stupid. 

definitely trending towards the stupid range so far. 

i mean what has he done right? where has he had ANY success at running a pro team?

and you definitely need to add into consideration what happened in rock hill with the failed facility down there. excuses can be made, but then it seems like that's all he's done consistently well is make excuses for failed attempts at running either team.

That’s not what I was arguing before. Tepper has been terrible. I’ll stop posting because we are getting sidetracked. My replies were all about Reich and putting the Bears loss and indecision on him not Tepper.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, rayzor said:

he's yet to show that he isn't stupid. 

definitely trending towards the stupid range so far. 

i mean what has he done right? where has he had ANY success at running a pro team?

and you definitely need to add into consideration what happened in rock hill with the failed facility down there. excuses can be made, but then it seems like that's all he's done consistently well is make excuses for failed attempts at running either team.

We've talked before about skill sets.

There are brilliant doctors who can't balance their checkbooks...

High priced lawyers who don't understand simple home maintenance...

Orators who can deliver stirring speeches but stink at interpersonal communication...

...and plenty of other examples.

Even if you're in intelligent person, you might not necessarily have the skill set needed to accomplish certain tasks.

I'd say that sums up David Tepper pretty well.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

I 100% agree with this. Tepper has caused this mess. That’s not what this thread was about or why I replied to your post. You blamed Reich’s indecisiveness directly on Tepper. IMHO, that points to Reich not being a good coach. I think Tepper is not to blame for the execution, but the incorrect hires.

Reich failed before and based on that other thread, we’ve seen very similar issues here. Fitterer is making the same bad moves as he did when we blamed Rhule for everything. We aren’t dealing with upper echelon talent failing. We are dealing with an owner who made terrible hires. As much as it’s painful to start from scratch and have to hope Tepper doesn’t screw up again, I still hope we do so there’s a glimmer of hope becaus we have 0 now. 

I'm blaming the overall environment on Tepper. I never wanted Reich. I don't think he's the right guy. You're interpreting criticism of the environment as defense of Reich. That ain't it.

[onmyown]

26 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

Whole lot? Ron, Hurney, Rhule, Fitterer and Reich. Is that our murderer’s row of amazing talent? The GMing itself has been fuging atrocious. How many picks have we trading away the past few years? The huddle has absolutely blown away the “competent” GMs we’ve had. That’s Tepper’s fault but I don’t see Tepper turning guys who’ve proven their amazing talents elsewhere into bad GMs and coaches.

The indecisiveness at the most crucial juncture of the game sort of proves that Reich isn’t the guy, but somehow you are trying to blame Tepper scaring Reich, a player and coach in the NFL for 30 years, into flailing and kicking a 59 yard FG to lose a game.

Tepper’s been the biggest problem because he hasn’t made correct moves.  I’m blaming him for picking the wrong guys. I’m not going to say he’s turning marquee guys into flailers.

See this is where the huddlers get it twisted.

He isn’t picking the wrong guys. The right guys don’t want to work for him. The right guys know this isn’t a situation they will have success, for the reasons already outlined in this thread.

Huge difference. And a much more dire situation.

[LinvilleGorge]

Tepper should sit down and have some serious self reflection and ask himself if he isn't displaying some serious Dunning-Kruger effect assuming his hedge fund experience and success would just seamlessly transition to sports dominance.

[rayzor]

2 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

That’s not what I was arguing before. Tepper has been terrible. I’ll stop posting because we are getting sidetracked. My replies were all about Reich and putting the Bears loss and indecision on him not Tepper.

nobody was saying that reich isn't a problem. it's just becoming more and more evident that tepper is making his hiring decisions worse by micromanaging.

he hires bad then tries to compensate by pushing/bulldozing them.

[SmokinwithWilly]

32 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

We've talked before about skill sets.

There are brilliant doctors who can't balance their checkbooks...

High priced lawyers who don't understand simple home maintenance...

Orators who can deliver stirring speeches but stink at interpersonal communication...

...and plenty of other examples.

Even if you're in intelligent person, you might not necessarily have the skill set needed to accomplish certain tasks.

I'd say that sums up David Tepper pretty well.

Pretty much. You don't know what you don't know. It kind of feels like he's watching YouTube videos on how to run your own NFL team. 

[*FreeFua*]

This next coaching hire should be interesting. 

Maybe once he hears all the top guys decline a chance to interview it’ll click but I seriously doubt it

There is no amount of money that is getting Ben Johnson to take this coaching job

[PantherFanInPhilly]

2 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I think Tepper creates a toxic, chaotic work environment that creates constant dysfunction throughout the organization.

I mean...I did read one of the former graphic designers or social media dudes for the Panthers quit and he alluded to how toxic it is in the building because of Tepper and Co.

[BrianS]

3 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Have you ever been in a work environment where you work for a complete asshole who you don't trust who you know will throw you under the bus at a moment's noticed deserved or not who also micromanages the poo out of you, constantly criticizes and nitpicks everything whether they have any real knowledge of the situation or the subject matter creating a situation of constant second guessing because you're not just trying to figure out the right thing to do in a given situation but also trying to predict how this fuging asshole is going to react?

That's a mouthful but I've been there and this is what it looks like.

I've lived that.  It's a miserable way to live.  You *know* what the right thing to do is, but you second guess yourself anyway.