The Athletic - Panthers Indecisiveness

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Have you ever been in a work environment where you work for a complete asshole who you don't trust who you know will throw you under the bus at a moment's noticed deserved or not who also micromanages the poo out of you, constantly criticizes and nitpicks everything whether they have any real knowledge of the situation or the subject matter creating a situation of constant second guessing because you're not just trying to figure out the right thing to do in a given situation but also trying to predict how this fuging asshole is going to react?

That's a mouthful but I've been there and this is what it looks like.

Definitely.

And we can only imagine how the nature of the NFL might magnify those issues.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[WhoKnows]

4 minutes ago, rayzor said:

great.

tepper has everyone second guessing themselves.

we're fugged forever.

Fine with me. If an asshole owner flusters a 61 year old NFL veteran that’s a great sign to move on because that coach doesn’t win Super Bowls.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, WhoKnows said:

Fine with me. If an asshole owner flusters a 61 year old NFL veteran that’s a great sign to move on because that coach doesn’t win Super Bowls.

Yeah...not the correct read at all.

What it's actually a sign of is that Tepper is likely going to screw up whomever works here.

Rayzor had it right.

[rayzor]

12 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

Fine with me. If an asshole owner flusters a 61 year old NFL veteran that’s a great sign to move on because that coach doesn’t win Super Bowls.

it doesn't matter how good you are if your big boss is constantly not just looking over your shoulder but questioning every decision you make. overbearing pain in the ass micromanaging bosses keep even the best form performing at a high level. i don't care if he's the one that's got the money and the power, he's keeping his hirees from doing their damn job at the best of their ability.

i've seen this happen in just about every arena. you want your organization to fail, you nitpick and harrass your employees. you ride their back and you're riding your organization over the cliff.

 

[edit]this isn't to say that hiring reich wasn't a a bad decision. but tepper isn't making it any easier for him or anyone. he makes bad hires and then makes them worse by micromanaging them. it could vey well be that tepper just doesn't know what he's doing in the hiring and overall managing of a football team.

[LinvilleGorge]

12 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

Fine with me. If an asshole owner flusters a 61 year old NFL veteran that’s a great sign to move on because that coach doesn’t win Super Bowls.

He keeps firing people and hiring new people yet the dysfunction and appearance of the entire organization being absolute amateur hour persists. Gotta start looking for the common threads and we're running out of ones without the last name of "Tepper".

[WhoKnows]

15 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Have you ever been in a work environment where you work for a complete asshole who you don't trust who you know will throw you under the bus at a moment's noticed deserved or not who also micromanages the poo out of you, constantly criticizes and nitpicks everything whether they have any real knowledge of the situation or the subject matter creating a situation of constant second guessing because you're not just trying to figure out the right thing to do in a given situation but also trying to predict how this fuging asshole is going to react?

That's a mouthful but I've been there and this is what it looks like.

 

19 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I think Tepper creates a toxic, chaotic work environment that creates constant dysfunction throughout the organization.

Some really huge assumptions here. The only thing we’ve heard is that after 1-5 or so, Tepper started having meetings with Reich. You mentioned getting thrown under the bus. Do you have specific examples? I don’t remember Tepper interviews where he called out Reich or Fitterer.

TBH, this is shaping up just like Rhule. I’m not saying Rhule was incorrectly fired but the Huddle was blaming everything on him. Fitterer shouldn’t be fired, he built a great OL and everything else was Rhule, the devil, and Fitt hasn’t had a chance to blossom on his own. Well, two seasons of more control and draft/trade decisions and it wasn’t all Rhule. Fitt sucked.

Now, Reich is completely indecisive and hoping for 54 yard FGs and he’s not a bad coach, it’s Tepper, the devil causing him to fail. We saw all the media crushing Tepper for putting a winless (at the time) coach to task by OMG having meetings to explain why we suck balls.

Even @Mr. Scot seems to be slowly getting off the Reich bandwagon and maybe this indecisiveness isn’t a Tepper is evil example, maybe, just maybe, Reich isn’t a good enough coach.

I’m not happy with Tepper because his decisions have us where we are but just like we realized with Fitterer, our staff is subpar and is as big a problem as Tepper hurting Frank’s feelings.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

 

Some really huge assumptions here. The only thing we’ve heard is that after 1-5 or so, Tepper started having meetings with Reich. You mentioned getting thrown under the bus. Do you have specific examples? I don’t remember Tepper interviews where he called out Reich or Fitterer.

TBH, this is shaping up just like Rhule. I’m not saying Rhule was incorrectly fired but the Huddle was blaming everything on him. Fitterer shouldn’t be fired, he built a great OL and everything else was Rhule, the devil, and Fitt hasn’t had a chance to blossom on his own. Well, two seasons of more control and draft/trade decisions and it wasn’t all Rhule. Fitt sucked.

Now, Reich is completely indecisive and hoping for 54 yard FGs and he’s not a bad coach, it’s Tepper, the devil causing him to fail. We saw all the media crushing Tepper for putting a winless (at the time) coach to task by OMG having meetings to explain why we suck balls.

Even @Mr. Scot seems to be slowly getting off the Reich bandwagon and maybe this indecisiveness isn’t a Tepper is evil example, maybe, just maybe, Reich isn’t a good enough coach.

I’m not happy with Tepper because his decisions have us where we are but just like we realized with Fitterer, our staff is subpar and is as big a problem as Tepper hurting Frank’s feelings.

Just look at the history of the Panthers since Tepper bought the team. If you wanna defend the guy, fine. But there's a whole lot of folks with a lot of football experience that have to have suddenly becomes wildly incompetent that have to be at fault to prevent Tepper from being the root cause. Occam's Razor and all that.

I'm not necessarily defending Reich. I didn't want to hire him in the first place. I'm just seeing a very specific trend here of chaos and dysfunction while everyone not named David Tepper get churned. 

[Mr. Scot]

10 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

 

Some really huge assumptions here. The only thing we’ve heard is that after 1-5 or so, Tepper started having meetings with Reich. You mentioned getting thrown under the bus. Do you have specific examples? I don’t remember Tepper interviews where he called out Reich or Fitterer.

TBH, this is shaping up just like Rhule. I’m not saying Rhule was incorrectly fired but the Huddle was blaming everything on him. Fitterer shouldn’t be fired, he built a great OL and everything else was Rhule, the devil, and Fitt hasn’t had a chance to blossom on his own. Well, two seasons of more control and draft/trade decisions and it wasn’t all Rhule. Fitt sucked.

Now, Reich is completely indecisive and hoping for 54 yard FGs and he’s not a bad coach, it’s Tepper, the devil causing him to fail. We saw all the media crushing Tepper for putting a winless (at the time) coach to task by OMG having meetings to explain why we suck balls.

Even @Mr. Scot seems to be slowly getting off the Reich bandwagon and maybe this indecisiveness isn’t a Tepper is evil example, maybe, just maybe, Reich isn’t a good enough coach.

I’m not happy with Tepper because his decisions have us where we are but just like we realized with Fitterer, our staff is subpar and is as big a problem as Tepper hurting Frank’s feelings.

This actually isn't the first time we're hearing stuff like this about Tepper.

The talk that he's an extremely difficult person to work for has been around for a few years now.

[WhoKnows]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Just look at the history of the Panthers since Tepper bought the team. If you wanna defend the guy, fine. But there's a whole lot of folks with a lot of football experience that have to have suddenly becomes wildly incompetent that have to be at fault to prevent Tepper from being the root cause. Occam's Razor and all that.

I'm not necessarily defending Reich. I didn't want to hire him in the first place. I'm just seeing a very specific trend here of chaos and dysfunction while everyone not named David Tepper get churned. 

Whole lot? Ron, Hurney, Rhule, Fitterer and Reich. Is that our murderer’s row of amazing talent? The GMing itself has been fuging atrocious. How many picks have we trading away the past few years? The huddle has absolutely blown away the “competent” GMs we’ve had. That’s Tepper’s fault but I don’t see Tepper turning guys who’ve proven their amazing talents elsewhere into bad GMs and coaches.

The indecisiveness at the most crucial juncture of the game sort of proves that Reich isn’t the guy, but somehow you are trying to blame Tepper scaring Reich, a player and coach in the NFL for 30 years, into flailing and kicking a 59 yard FG to lose a game.

Tepper’s been the biggest problem because he hasn’t made correct moves.  I’m blaming him for picking the wrong guys. I’m not going to say he’s turning marquee guys into flailers.

[WhoKnows]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

This actually isn't the first time we're hearing stuff like this about Tepper.

The talk that he's an extremely difficult person to work for has been around for a few years now.

We are the worst team in the NFL since he’s been the owner. Do you expect him to be happy or satisfied? You were all about giving Fitterer more rope and saying Reich was a great coach. Does this real article make you think otherwise or do you still thing the “talk” is why our talent level has nose dived and our team is even worse than the Rhule years?

Personally, I think Tepper gave Fitt and Reich way more rope than people think, which is why he’s been so upset this year. Tepper still bungled it but he thought Marty was a great college scout at one point too. He’s not making good calls with his GM/coach hirings but he didn’t cause the terrible end of game play calling against the Bears.

[LinvilleGorge]

8 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

Whole lot? Ron, Hurney, Rhule, Fitterer and Reich. Is that our murderer’s row of amazing talent? The GMing itself has been fuging atrocious. How many picks have we trading away the past few years? The huddle has absolutely blown away the “competent” GMs we’ve had. That’s Tepper’s fault but I don’t see Tepper turning guys who’ve proven their amazing talents elsewhere into bad GMs and coaches.

The indecisiveness at the most crucial juncture of the game sort of proves that Reich isn’t the guy, but somehow you are trying to blame Tepper scaring Reich, a player and coach in the NFL for 30 years, into flailing and kicking a 59 yard FG to lose a game.

Tepper’s been the biggest problem because he hasn’t made correct moves.  I’m blaming him for picking the wrong guys. I’m not going to say he’s turning marquee guys into flailers.

You might have a point if Tepper didn't come into the league already with a reputation of being a very difficult person to work for. Now folks at that level generally are, but when you stick out amongst folks at that level of being a very difficult person to work for you're probably just a thoroughly shitty boss. That's the way it looks to be playing out so far.

When you're the boss and everyone under you keeps failing it's time to look in the mirror.

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

You might have a point if Tepper didn't come into the league already with a reputation of being a very difficult person to work for. Now folks at that level generally are, but when you stick out amongst folks at that level of being a very difficult person to work for you're probably just a thoroughly shitty boss. That's the way it looks to be playing out so far.

When you're the boss and everyone under you keeps failing it's time to look in the mirror.

Also worth mentioning that this isn't just happening with the Panthers.

You've got both the soccer team and the business of Tepper sports and entertainment showing the same issues.

[WhoKnows]

26 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

He keeps firing people and hiring new people yet the dysfunction and appearance of the entire organization being absolute amateur hour persists. Gotta start looking for the common threads and we're running out of ones without the last name of "Tepper".

Unless he sells the team, he’ll always be the common thread. What if Ben Johnson was willing to become a coach last year? If Reich had started 3-0, do you think Tepper is questioning everything? If Fitt makes the Burns trade and CMC and Moore are still in the team and we didn’t give away the #1 pick to the Bears, do you think Tepper doesn’t rightly get mad at seeing Montez Sweat and Chase Young get traded for pennies while we said Burns is untouchable and worth more than pick 38, pick 6 next year and another 1st and still unsigned?

Personally, I am sure Tepper is hard to work for and demanding, but he’s also not stupid. He was sold a bill of goods on our talent and choices and on being a contender and all of that has been flushed down a toilet. I’d be livid if my GM fuged up badly and my coach can’t make up his mind at a critical juncture to lose a game.

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Also worth mentioning that this isn't just happening with the Panthers.

You've got both the soccer team and the business of Tepper sports and entertainment showing the same issues.

True. All of his sports ventures are a poo show featuring constant dysfunction and constant turnover.

Meanwhile, we're supposed to believe that Tepper ISN'T the root cause? Doesn't add up.