Do you watch CJ Stroud and wonder ‘what if’?

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, frankw said:

 

Explain why the offense looked so much better and performed the best it has with Andy Dalton? Why wasn't the oline the weapons and the coaching complete garbage from top to botton for that one? That's still our highest scoring game.

This is when people just get mad. That's the part of reality they REALLY don't want to have to deal with. This is where all the whataboutisms fall apart.

[Navy_football]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Hell, Bieniemy is part of the problem in Washington. The man practically puts the entire offense on Howell's shoulders.

Yeah I think EB is coaching for a HC gig - a la Chudzinsky. 

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Navy_football said:

Yeah I think EB is coaching for a HC gig - a la Chudzinsky. 

Agreed.

[Sean Payton's Vicodin]

I think watching Marvin Harrison Jr tear poo up next year is gonna be another "what if"

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Sean Payton's Vicodin said:

I think watching Marvin Harrison Jr tear poo up next year is gonna be another "what if"

Man, there's some good looking 1st round receivers next year. Harrison Jr., that Washington kid, that FSU kid. They all look like top 15 picks IMO.

[TLGPanthersFan]

14 minutes ago, PantherKyle said:

We dont have objective people on this forum. 

Stroud been sacked 8 times in the last 7 games. Coaching matters. Go ball CJ.

I'll choose to not turn on our QB after 8 starts.

History shows short QBs like Bryce do not succeed in the NFL. Kinda similar to interim HC and college HC. 
Last truly short QB to have success was Russell Wilson and that’s it. 
The coaching staff is banking on Bryce being the exception not the rule. 
Well the rule is the rule for a reason. 
This team loves to think it is gonna be that team that becomes the exception. 

[Navy_football]

5 minutes ago, frankw said:

 

Explain why the offense looked so much better and performed the best it has with Andy Dalton? Why wasn't the oline the weapons and the coaching complete garbage from top to botton for that one? That's still our highest scoring game.

Dalton leaned heavily on Thielen just like Bryce does. Take away a big play to Chark, where the defender literally fell down and no one else has over 40 yards receiving. Teams now know if they take away the 50 year old slow WR, there's no one else to worry about. Either they can't get open, will run the wrong route, or just plain drop the ball. 

Look Andy Dalton has been in the NFL for like 13 years. And he's had very good seasons with the Bengals - like pro bowl level. He's seen more than the rookie and should be able to adapt better to the chaos that is the Panther's offense than the guy that has played 8 games so far. 

[PanthersGTI]

Nah, I still believe in Bryce. We just have to fix the team/staff around him. He is getting killed out there and any productions our WRs could produce is stifled by a bad system. I wouldn't be surprised in Young was the top QB on the Texans draft board as well as a few other teams as well. They just hit on the right staff, we got potential there but no spark from the very top. 

[LinvilleGorge]

8 minutes ago, TLGPanthersFan said:

History shows short QBs like Bryce do not succeed in the NFL. Kinda similar to interim HC and college HC. 
Last truly short QB to have success was Russell Wilson and that’s it. 
The coaching staff is banking on Bryce being the exception not the rule. 
Well the rule is the rule for a reason. 
This team loves to think it is gonna be that team that becomes the exception. 

It's not just that Bryce lacks ideal size. It's that he's historically undersized. Nobody on earth actually believes that combine weight was legit. The dude looks a buck eighty tops. He hid all weekend under that hoodie to hide the spare tire he was carrying from porking up to step on that scale so tanked full of water his eyeballs were floating. Then on top of being historically undersized we add on a marginal at best NFL arm and we really have an uphill battle on our hands.

[br2nc0]

1 hour ago, mrcompletely11 said:

A 7th round pick from 6 years ago was their leading receiver yesterday 

You're acting as if 7th round guys can't be competent. I guess Brock Purdy is terrible, then. It's all about the right coaching and development.

[stratocatter]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I don't hate Bryce. He seems like a good guy. I think he's doing the best he can and that's all you can ask of a player. If a guy is putting in the work and receptive to coaching then it's either poor talent evaluation or poor coaching... or both leading to the failure.

People get frustrated because they feel like he games the pre-draft process but that's his job. As a draft eligible player your job at the time is to maximize your draft status. I don't put any blame on the prospect for that.

I am definitely nearing the end of the road. I know better than to blame him, and never have. 

His game? Yep I am guilty. Do not believe in him as what he is basically claiming to be, a top NFL starting QB. 

The longer he looks overmatched the more bitter I am feeling about watching him play. I do not like it. The last game was as bad as the opener. 

His gaming of the combine, btw, was so obvious that it was comical. It became a problem that our people apparently couldn’t see the truth when he threw on his pro day.

This could be a different post but what the hell:

I swear, I gave up being some college draft scout expert on who we should pick in the 3rd or 5th, a long time ago. 

I make no claims in a typical draft. I might look at the guys we are considering at #12 or #22 but I don’t research video on them.

When something crazy like this tradeup happens though, I am going to have to do some homework. 

I saw things pretty quickly that warned me away in no uncertain terms. I wrote about them here. Couple of things and they Are the impediments he is not overcoming to date, from what I can see. 

It played out.

When I looked at Stroud, he was much more the physical model, athletic enough, and his arm? It was there. Clearly he had the arm advantage. It looks like the other NFL quarterbacks that I have watched since the ‘60s.  Thousands of games. 

In other major sports, there are preferred body types for every job. Outlier body types, if they are exceptionally talented, do earn a position. Some get taken down the draft, some are offered tryouts, but they are NOT lauded and pedestaled at the very top of the heap and people are not trading their futures for them. 

Trying to outsmart the establishment by blazing a new trail, they just outsmarted themselves.

If Reich was for this, he should have never been hired. I was shocked these lifers went along with this. I still struggle to believe that I could see something so clearly and they are 1000x more football than I am, didn’t. 

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, stratocatter said:

I am definitely nearing the end of the road. I know better than to blame him, and never have. 

His game? Yep I am guilty. Do not believe in him as what he is basically claiming to be, a top NFL starting QB. 

The longer he looks overmatched the more bitter I am feeling about watching him play. I do not like it. The last game was as bad as the opener. 

His gaming of the combine, btw, was so obvious that it was comical. It became a problem that our people apparently couldn’t see the truth when he threw on his pro day.

This could be a different post but what the hell:

I swear, I gave up being some college draft scout expert on who we should pick in the 3rd or 5th, a long time ago. 

I make no claims in a typical draft. I might look at the guys we are considering at #12 or #22 but I don’t research video on them.

When something crazy like this tradeup happens though, I am going to have to do some homework. 

I saw things pretty quickly that warned me away in no uncertain terms. I wrote about them here. Couple of things and they Are the impediments he is not overcoming to date, from what I can see. 

It played out.

When I looked at Stroud, he was much more the physical model, athletic enough, and his arm? It was there. Clearly he had the arm advantage. It looks like the other NFL quarterbacks that I have watched since the ‘60s.  Thousands of games. 

In other major sports, there are preferred body types for every job. Outlier body types, if they are exceptionally talented, do earn a position. Some get taken down the draft, some are offered tryouts, but they are NOT lauded and pedestaled at the very top of the heap and people are not trading their futures for them. 

Trying to outsmart the establishment by blazing a new trail, they just outsmarted themselves.

If Reich was for this, he should have never been hired. I was shocked these lifers went along with this. I still struggle to believe that I could see something so clearly and they are 1000x more football than I am, didn’t. 

Oh, I'm 99% sure Bryce is gonna bust at this point. Outside of us miraculously falling backasswards into landing top offensive talent around him and a brilliant offensive mind on the sidelines I just don't see any avenue for him to be a good starting NFL QB.

[br2nc0]

18 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

This is when people just get mad. That's the part of reality they REALLY don't want to have to deal with. This is where all the whataboutisms fall apart.

I can't believe people are this delusional on this forum that people are surprised that a veteran did better than a rookie. 

People act like our offense was hitting on all cylinders that game, but our offense completely fell apart the 2nd half of the game. Take away the garbage time TD and we scored 19-21 points. Take away another flukey TD to Chark where the defender literally slipped and we scored 11-13 points. Dalton leaned heavily on Thielen just like Bryce did. Dalton is a vet and was better handled to adjust rather than a rookie, especially 3 weeks into the season. He's not going to be Patrick Mahomes the first season of his rookie career, especially not in this offense. Some players just develop more fast and slower than others, we just need to be a bit more patient and give him a chance in a competent offense.

[nctommy]

22 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

 If a guy is putting in the work and receptive to coaching then it's either poor talent evaluation or poor coaching... or both leading to the failure.

Regarding this aspect of the conversation.  I looked through the staff and see a lot of guys from last years Cardinals and Colts.  Both of which earned top picks on their own.  But one stood out.  Not sure he has any qualifications to do the job he does, nor am I certain what he really does.  He is listed in the senior football staff.  I particularly cringed when I read this quote:  "I was fascinated with human performance psychology and what makes people great. I wanted to read anything and everything that I could read on leadership, character, psychology, and everything about that. I had a theory going into it that if you take the sport-specific requirements away from it, and you look at people who go on to be great in any field become that top 1 percent; my theory is that they would be the same person."

Take the sport-specific requirements away???  So if we look at Young without his height, weight and arm strength, then he is a hall of Fame-bound QB?   Did they analyze this draft???

 https://www.panthers.com/news/brian-decker-special-forces-staff-addition-vp-development-colts-green-beret