Retooling the offensive approach...

[Bear Hands]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Corbett came from McVay's system so I'd expect him to know how to work in that kind of scheme.

Moton has a really good mix of power, agility and balance so he suits pretty much anything you want to run.

It's from the center-left where the issues start.

I still think Bozeman could handle this kind of attack if he had good guard play. Plenty of great centers look like crap when they have to account for poor play beside them.

Ickey at left tackle is the most obvious mismatch. But could he handle a left guard spot in a WCO? Probably. At the very least, it's worth a shot.

But then of course, we're in the spot of looking for a left tackle again, unless Brady Christensen can handle the job. He's definitely more suited to a WCO outside spot than Ickey, so at least potentially you'd have the option of retooling the line without making major personnel changes.

Obviously though, that can't happen this season.

Yeah that's where it gets a bit frustrating.  I honestly prefer gravitating to a more zone heavy approach given where the league is at, but Icky is struggling mightily.  It essentially opens up that huge need that we've struggled with since Gross yet again.  

Combine the line struggles with not having the receiving talent, it's just a bad recipe.  

Funny enough, something I never noticed but Reich's (arguably) best offensive year as a playcaller was when his top receiver was a TE in Zach Ertz with a combo platter at WR in Alshon, Torrey Smith, & Agholor and a 3+ headed RB room. 

Nothing seems to fit anyhwere right now.  Square peg round holes at every turn.

[Bear Hands]

Looking further down the road, still think Troy Franklin is the WR that makes too much sense for us in the 2024 draft.  Still pounding hard for that guy.  Haven't felt that way about a receiver this early before but he's just exactly what we need.

[Chad_Cota]

I thought it was only going to be like this in preseason 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Bear Hands said:

Looking further down the road, still think Troy Franklin is the WR that makes too much sense for us in the 2024 draft.  Still pounding hard for that guy.  Haven't felt that way about a receiver this early before but he's just exactly what we need.

I watched a lot of college football early in the season but have tailed off since. Not familiar with him.

About the only receivers I ever hear anybody talk about are Harrison Jr and Keon Coleman.

Edited November 10, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[Bear Hands]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

I watched a lot of college football early in the season but have tailed off since. Not familiar with him.

He's the guy making Bo Nix look like a top prospect.  He's having a mammoth season.

The Pac-12 this year has so much talent.  Big locker room guy, vocal, speedy, smooth, big play threat.  Really solid guy, some stuff to work on but you can't teach his in game quickness. Already considered one of the top WRs in Oregon history.  

I find him and Odunze super impressive.  

 

[*FreeFua*]

32 minutes ago, BrianS said:

 

I disagree here.  Mingo has been showing slow progress over the year.  Receivers can tend to take time to mature into the NFL.  Mingo has been playing like a rookie.

He hasn’t shown any progress

Nah WR’s who end up being worth a damn don’t ever look as lost as he has to start their career these days. Gone are the days where good WR’s need multiple years to develop

Mingo runs around like a chicken with its head cutoff. No awareness. No idea on depth of routes. He’s been really really bad

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Bear Hands said:

He's the guy making Bo Nix look like a top prospect.  He's having a mammoth season.

The Pac-12 this year has so much talent.  Big locker room guy, vocal, speedy, smooth, big play threat.  Really solid guy, some stuff to work on but you can't teach his in game quickness. Already considered one of the top WRs in Oregon history.  

I find him and Odunze super impressive.  

Kinda unintentionally reminded me have something else I was thinking of...

If there aren't major changes and we go into next year with Bryce Young still the presumed starter, obviously the skill positions will need to be retooled. And as mentioned, there's a path to fixing the offensive line without major personnel changes.

But there is one other spot I'd like to see flipped that we haven't mentioned yet.

His backup.

To be clear, I have nothing against Dalton, but skill set wise he's pretty similar to Young.

I'd like to see that changed and have Young backed up with someone who fits more into the Coryell mold of quarterback. That way if things trend like they have this year, we have some options.

Mind you, I still think Young can be good and potentially even a franchise quarterback, but not in this scheme. So if there aren't major changes to the scheme, something has to give.

[Bear Hands]

Just now, *FreeFua* said:

He hasn’t shown any progress

Nah WR’s who end up being worth a damn don’t ever look as lost as he has to start their career these days. Gone are the days where good WR’s need multiple years to develop

Mingo runs around like a chicken with its head cutoff. No awareness. No idea on depth of routes. He’s been really really bad

Yeah if anything, WRs are the ones that make the quickest splashes out of the gates.  

Teams are finding quality in the top-4 rounds every year the past 5-6 seasons.  We just keep picking the duds.  

AJ Brown, Deebo, Metcalf, Diontae, JJ, G Wil, Lamb, St. Brown, Chase, Aiyuk, Higgins, Pittman, Waddle, Nico, Olave, Watson, Pickens, Dell, whether high pick or mid-rounds, we're continuously missing out on talent.  We're just flat out picking the wrong dudes.

[Bear Hands]

Just now, Mr. Scot said:

Kinda unintentionally reminded me have something else I was thinking of...

If there aren't major changes and we go into next year with Bryce Young still the presumed starter, obviously the skill positions will need to be retooled. And as mentioned, there's a path to fixing the offensive line without major personnel changes.

But there is one other spot I'd like to see flipped that we haven't mentioned yet.

His backup.

To be clear, I have nothing against Dalton, but skill set wise he's pretty similar to Young.

I'd like to see that changed and have Young backed up with someone who fits more into the Coryell mold of quarterback. That way if things trend like they have this year, we have some options.

Mind you, I still think Young can be good and potentially even a franchise quarterback, but not in this scheme. So if there aren't major changes to the scheme, something has to give.

I wouldn't mind drafting a backup honestly.  That's how yuo can find a potential diamond in case Bryce doesn't work out.  Then you're talking the Michael Pratts of the world.  

[Prowler2k18]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

... would be a massive project, but with ten days available it could at least be worth a shot.

What would I suggest? Shifting to a run heavy scheme to utilize the personnel we have on the OL in a manner that suits their skill set and hopefully minimizes the damage done to Bryce Young.

There should already be at least some plays in the playbook geared to this (short yardage plays if nothing else) that could be emphasized more or even tweaked to fit different down and distance situations. Hell, there's certainly time to write new plays even.

At the very least though, the game plans we've been using are not working and those have got to change.

Would it accomplish anything?

Don't know, but it's better than playing out the proverbial  definition of insanity.

When you look back at our most successful campaigns, the Panthers are best with a power running offense and efficient passing complemented by great defense and solid special teams play. That approach has epitomized the “KEEP POUNDING” mantra that has been our battle cry.

I’ll never understand this drive to embrace the WCO when we simply don’t have the personnel to execute it effectively. Rhule attempted a similar approach with Joe Brady from LSU and it failed miserably. We’re just not built for it and frankly this has never been what Panthers’ football is all about.

Teams like Alabama (where Bryce Young became a star), 49ers, Seahawks, etc. have figured out how to maintain strong power running offenses with complementary passing that makes them hard to beat. Why is it so hard for the Panthers to do the same? 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Prowler2k18

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, Bear Hands said:

Yeah if anything, WRs are the ones that make the quickest splashes out of the gates.  

Teams are finding quality in the top-4 rounds every year the past 5-6 seasons.  We just keep picking the duds.  

AJ Brown, Deebo, Metcalf, Diontae, JJ, G Wil, Lamb, St. Brown, Chase, Aiyuk, Higgins, Pittman, Waddle, Nico, Olave, Watson, Pickens, Dell, whether high pick or mid-rounds, we're continuously missing out on talent.  We're just flat out picking the wrong dudes.

I'd say runningbacks adapt quicker, honestly.

Receivers? Depends on where you get them. Loads of pro coaches have grumbled about how few college receivers know a full route tree these days.

1 minute ago, Bear Hands said:

I wouldn't mind drafting a backup honestly.  That's how yuo can find a potential diamond in case Bryce doesn't work out.  Then you're talking the Michael Pratts of the world.  

I'd probably go for a vet just so we're not lacking in experience or mentorship, but I can understand that approach as well.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, Prowler2k18 said:

When you look back at our most successful campaigns, the Panthers are best with a power  running offense and efficient passing complemented by great defense and solid special teams play. That approach has epitomized the “KEEP POUNDING” mantra that has been our battle cry.

I’ll never understand this drive to embrace the WCO when we simply don’t have the personnel to execute it effectively. Rhule attempted a similar approach with Joe Brady from LSU and it failed miserably. We’re just not built for it and frankly this has never been what Panthers’ football is all about.

Teams like Alabama (where Bryce Young became a star), 49ers, Seahawks, etc. have figured out how to maintain strong power running offenses with complementary passing that makes them hard to beat. Why is it so hard for the Panthers to do the same? 

The Panthers have been a Coryell team through most of their existence, with the exception of George Seifert (WCO) Dom Capers (E-P) and Matt Rhule (whatever bullsh-t that was).

These days we're still built for Coryell, we're just not running it.

[AggieLean]

20 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

He hasn’t shown any progress

Nah WR’s who end up being worth a damn don’t ever look as lost as he has to start their career these days. Gone are the days where good WR’s need multiple years to develop

Mingo runs around like a chicken with its head cutoff. No awareness. No idea on depth of routes. He’s been really really bad

How in the hell did we end up with the Ole Miss receiver that’s garbage??!! Same thing happened with TMJ and LSU. Ole Miss has some studs coming in at WR next year too. Sanfrisco Magee is a name to look out for. 
 

Anyways, Mingo has been bad. He’s not getting it, and his route running is terrible. That pass in the 4th should’ve been a TD. He’s had a few plays like that where if he just runs a better route, it’s 6 or big yards.

[Mr. Scot]

Ellis chimes in...