For being an elite processor…

[Stingray3030]

Just now, ForJimmy said:

Oh so you were including the MVP season. That makes it worse….. 

I'll defend that mediocre MVP season right to the ground.....absolutely.  Shoulda been Julio Jones

[Stingray3030]

[Stingray3030]

5 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Oh so you were including the MVP season. That makes it worse….. 

26th in Comp %

16th in Passing Yards

11th in INT %

11th in QBR

The ONLY difference in his stats that year and every other year was his TD total.....so let's use our brains a second.  If someone throws the same number of passes, for the same yardage, completes the same % of them....why do they have more TD's one season over another????  Hmmmmmm  

Well that would be called Better Opportunities....and in football what determines if your plays have a better opportunity to result in a TD?  Field Position and Momentum.....and who determines starting field position?  Defense and Special Teams.  We were 2ND in the league in starting field position, 1ST in defensive turnovers, LAST in scoring defense (meaning when we got a TO we didn't score, we gave it to the offense for an easy one), and had the 5th easiest schedule.

Cam was an exceptional running QB - not an exceptional QB.

[Navy_football]

I don't know. Hard to objectively evaluate Bryce because of what's around him. Maybe he could be better with average NFL-level talent at playcalling, oline and WR. I think RB is improving as Miles gets fewer reps.

I think we can say with great certainty that he isn't the kind of player that can make really bad players better. Just hoping we can see if he can make winners out of average players. Panthers just have to get some first.

[ForJimmy]

22 minutes ago, Stingray3030 said:

26th in Comp %

16th in Passing Yards

11th in INT %

11th in QBR

The ONLY difference in his stats that year and every other year was his TD total.....so let's use our brains a second.  If someone throws the same number of passes, for the same yardage, completes the same % of them....why do they have more TD's one season over another????  Hmmmmmm  

Well that would be called Better Opportunities....and in football what determines if your plays have a better opportunity to result in a TD?  Field Position and Momentum.....and who determines starting field position?  Defense and Special Teams.  We were 2ND in the league in starting field position, 1ST in defensive turnovers, LAST in scoring defense (meaning when we got a TO we didn't score, we gave it to the offense for an easy one), and had the 5th easiest schedule.

Cam was an exceptional running QB - not an exceptional QB.

Yeah who cares about TDs and rushing yards???

Now do Young since they are equally disappointing.

[CRA]

3 hours ago, Stingray3030 said:

Now you pivot to a very broad definition of showing something to include running?  The ONLY thing Cam, Fields, and Richardson have shown is that they were elite RUNNING Quarterbacks.  To date Cam and Fields are terrible overall QB's who couldn't win consistently and turn the ball over at a worst in the league rate.  Cam's INT was 2.7% and Fields 3.7%.....those are horrendous.  Fields has won 6 games in 2.5 years....Cam nearly had a losing record for his career.  Cam never lived up to the #1 pick status and Fields is going to be replaced in 2024....very poor choices for the argument.  Cam was every bit as disappointing as Bryce has been so far.  

Trevor and Stroud I agree showed something.....both in better situations than Bryce - Stroud MUCH better.  But I disagree that Bryce has shown you nothing.  That's my only point.  You watch Bryce and he is clearly better than Bridgewater, Baker, Darnold, Heineke, anyone the last 4 years.  His accuracy and decision making is light years ahead of all of them and Cam and Fields.  Just because he isn't a runner doesn't mean they showed more....they just showed different.  

Pivot?  There is no pivot.  If it is a Cam Newton or a Fields or a Lamar or a Josh Allen.  Their legs are part of what potentially makes them special.   And you don’t even need to use that.  Cam set passing records out to the gate.  Take Fields 4th q vs the Steelers his rookie year.  Those are moments of showing you got “it”.  You might be something really special down the road.  It’s no guarantee.  So yeah, I set no criteria.  Heck it isn’t even limited to QBs.  If you trade a haul for a dude at #1 overall they should at some point show you they are special.  Even if in a bad spot.  Bryce hasn’t yet.  He needs to down the stretch.  It could an a RB behind the worst OL in the NFL and no pass game.  If you mortgage the future for him he better show you some moments here or there. 

[frankw]

Not the least bit surprised to see a Bryce Young stan bashing our only MVP in franchise history. They gave Stroud the same treatment. Then they'll turn around and flail about haters. They are frauds.

[frankw]

Doesn't like "running QB's" yet can only name Cam Fields and Richardson.

Loves Bryce Young though. Sounds like the average Bama fan through and through.

[Silent Majority]

1 hour ago, Stingray3030 said:

Yeah all the Cam lovers can come get some....he was a very poor QB.  The guy got an MVP on Luke and the defense - not cause he was exceptional - his stats that year were mediocre and the same as every other year.  The man had 3 winning seasons in 10 years....he was one of the least accurate QB's in the league his entire career....he had way more talent around him than Bryce does and a much better O-line.  He was the best QB THIS franchise ever had, because we have never had a top 10 QB.  As a #1 pick Cam was a disappointment without question.

LMAO ffs. Which one of the Johnny-Come-Lately, members of the Young family is this? 

Edited November 8, 2023 by Silent Majority

[Stingray3030]

1 hour ago, frankw said:

Doesn't like "running QB's" yet can only name Cam Fields and Richardson.

Loves Bryce Young though. Sounds like the average Bama fan through and through.

Clemson actually - and I have been a Panther fan since the very beginning.  Grew up in Rock Hill when they first started there.  Trust me I am old enough to have seen plenty of other running QB's - none of them ever win championships because they lose when forced to throw to win....Lamar, Cam, Vick, take your pick.  Vick was the better runner, Lamar the best combination, but none ever get it done when teams stack the box and force them to throw.  

My only point about Bryce is that judging a guy's potential in this nightmare of an offense is ridiculous - no one would look good with this line or garbage skill player group.  

All you Cam-suckers just look at his MVP and TD's on paper....I watched every game....they were the same....7-10 overthrows or in the dirt, interceptions, bad decisions, missed receivers.  He looked no different in 2015 then any other year and his numbers prove it.  Luke is a Hall of Famer who deserves the credit you clowns give Cam.  

[ForJimmy]

17 minutes ago, Stingray3030 said:

Clemson actually - and I have been a Panther fan since the very beginning.  Grew up in Rock Hill when they first started there.  Trust me I am old enough to have seen plenty of other running QB's - none of them ever win championships because they lose when forced to throw to win....Lamar, Cam, Vick, take your pick.  Vick was the better runner, Lamar the best combination, but none ever get it done when teams stack the box and force them to throw.  

My only point about Bryce is that judging a guy's potential in this nightmare of an offense is ridiculous - no one would look good with this line or garbage skill player group.  

All you Cam-suckers just look at his MVP and TD's on paper....I watched every game....they were the same....7-10 overthrows or in the dirt, interceptions, bad decisions, missed receivers.  He looked no different in 2015 then any other year and his numbers prove it.  Luke is a Hall of Famer who deserves the credit you clowns give Cam.  

Everyone loves Luke and no one doubts his greatness on here.  

My favorite part is hating on Cam then complaining about Young's OL and weapons.  Yeah we really gave Cam some elite LTs and WRs to work with.  He had Olsen I will give you that, but outside of that not much else...  

You know TDs are very important right?  I mean if you outscore your opponents you win every time.  It's sad I have to even type that....

[CRA]

47 minutes ago, Stingray3030 said:

Clemson actually - and I have been a Panther fan since the very beginning.  Grew up in Rock Hill when they first started there.  Trust me I am old enough to have seen plenty of other running QB's - none of them ever win championships because they lose when forced to throw to win....Lamar, Cam, Vick, take your pick.  Vick was the better runner, Lamar the best combination, but none ever get it done when teams stack the box and force them to throw.  

 

 Super Bowl last season featured a running QB.   Odds favor them going back again this season. 

I mean there also is luck and breaks that come into play in terms of winning rings. 

cant’t say they can’t.  It’s just math against them right now.   There aren’t many of them and Brady has skewed things to an extent this era across the board. But if you can get to the Super Bowl with a running QB….you can win one.

[frankw]

3 hours ago, Stingray3030 said:

Clemson actually - and I have been a Panther fan since the very beginning.  Grew up in Rock Hill when they first started there.  Trust me I am old enough to have seen plenty of other running QB's - none of them ever win championships because they lose when forced to throw to win....Lamar, Cam, Vick, take your pick.  Vick was the better runner, Lamar the best combination, but none ever get it done when teams stack the box and force them to throw.  

My only point about Bryce is that judging a guy's potential in this nightmare of an offense is ridiculous - no one would look good with this line or garbage skill player group.  

All you Cam-suckers just look at his MVP and TD's on paper....I watched every game....they were the same....7-10 overthrows or in the dirt, interceptions, bad decisions, missed receivers.  He looked no different in 2015 then any other year and his numbers prove it.  Luke is a Hall of Famer who deserves the credit you clowns give Cam.  

Oh wow. You definitely sound like you had some interesting takes about Cam the person over the years.

It's amusing seeing the goal posts about this destination for a rookie QB move so far in just 5-6 months. These posts would have you think everyone in the fanbase and people across the league said we were the worst place a rookie QB could land.

I agree Luke is an obvious hall of famer. But it's telling you want to denigrate Cam Newton to make that point as if it made no difference on his and other players careers on defense having #1 on the other side of the ball. When Cam looked like he was done so was Luke. That's no coincidence. Both sides of the ball feed off each other. Losing that presence on offense was just as enormous as Luke's retirement.

Clearly Newton still sticks in your craw all these years later. That's sad.

[Stingray3030]

13 hours ago, frankw said:

Oh wow. You definitely sound like you had some interesting takes about Cam the person over the years.

It's amusing seeing the goal posts about this destination for a rookie QB move so far in just 5-6 months. These posts would have you think everyone in the fanbase and people across the league said we were the worst place a rookie QB could land.

I agree Luke is an obvious hall of famer. But it's telling you want to denigrate Cam Newton to make that point as if it made no difference on his and other players careers on defense having #1 on the other side of the ball. When Cam looked like he was done so was Luke. That's no coincidence. Both sides of the ball feed off each other. Losing that presence on offense was just as enormous as Luke's retirement.

Clearly Newton still sticks in your craw all these years later. That's sad.

What do you mean by "its telling"?  I spent 9 years with him as my QB hoping he was as special as everyone claimed...only to be let down time and time and time and time again....one game he looked like his passing got better, 2 games he was awful, rinse repeat....our defense carries him to the Superbowl, he let's us all down with an epically horrible performance and effort....losing record in the playoffs the few times we got there.  Disappointment after disappointment, yet just good enough to never get a replacement so we were stuck in mediocre QB hell for a decade...spending all our picks to "tailor our offense to his skills" which means stupid draft picks.  We are only 2 seasons removed from his 0-5 return....what do you mean "all these years?"