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How do the Panthers move forward in a tanked season

Verge

By Verge,
in Carolina Panthers

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SmokinwithWilly Grand Master

SmokinwithWilly

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I see this a lot, but reality is we didn't trade away two first round picks. We traded away next year's and swapped picks this year.

We traded all that away in exchange for BY and DJ Johnson. Where they were picked is irrelevant. That's what we got for all those assets. Those 2 players, one who needs to be a unicorn at QB to be successful for his cost and the other a converted TE edge rusher project in his prime that can't get on the field on Sunday. 

Fitts said repeatedly they were trying to contend for the division. This was never a rebuild. This was drop Bryce into a system built by on offensive guru and watch the wins rain from the sky. Most fans always had reasonable expectations, but Tepper and the FO never did. It's always been win now for them. This is the result of being impatient. 

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mrcompletely11 Grand Master

mrcompletely11

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Just now, SmokinwithWilly said:

We traded all that away in exchange for BY and DJ Johnson. Where they were picked is irrelevant. That's what we got for all those assets. Those 2 players, one who needs to be a unicorn at QB to be successful for his cost and the other a converted TE edge rusher project in his prime that can't get on the field on Sunday. 

Fitts said repeatedly they were trying to contend for the division. This was never a rebuild. This was drop Bryce into a system built by on offensive guru and watch the wins rain from the sky. Most fans always had reasonable expectations, but Tepper and the FO never did. It's always been win now for them. This is the result of being impatient. 

After we went through preseason he was singing a different tune   I suspect young and the teams talent depth and overall coaching scheme made him see the light.   

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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3 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

We traded all that away in exchange for BY and DJ Johnson. Where they were picked is irrelevant. That's what we got for all those assets. Those 2 players, one who needs to be a unicorn at QB to be successful for his cost and the other a converted TE edge rusher project in his prime that can't get on the field on Sunday. 

Fitts said repeatedly they were trying to contend for the division. This was never a rebuild. This was drop Bryce into a system built by on offensive guru and watch the wins rain from the sky. Most fans always had reasonable expectations, but Tepper and the FO never did. It's always been win now for them. This is the result of being impatient. 

Sorry, no.

Thia is how the transaction breaks down as far as draft picks only:

We gave the Bears our 2024 first round pick and 2025 second round pick. We exchanged our 2023 first round pick (#9) for their 2023 first round pick (#1).

That's a net loss of only one first round pick.

And again, what the organization says publicly doesn't really mean anything. None of us know yet what was said behind closed doors.

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stratocatter Mentor

stratocatter

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I see this a lot, but reality is we didn't trade away two first round picks. We traded away next year's and swapped picks this year.

When you swap picks…. You don’t give one up? 

 

It is the freaking definition of giving up a pick. And another pick, on top of it to even it out. Except no that didn’t happen until we gave away a 1st round WR and more picks. 

 

Scot I don’t know that is your motivation but people use this type of fuzzy math to minimize the consequences. 

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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4 minutes ago, stratocatter said:

When you swap picks…. You don’t give one up? 

It is the freaking definition of giving up a pick. And another pick, on top of it to even it out. Except no that didn’t happen until we gave away a 1st round WR and more picks. 

Scot I don’t know that is your motivation but people use this type of fuzzy math to minimize the consequences. 

Yes, you give one up. You also get one back. In our case, the one we got back was eight spots higher than the one we gave up.

There's no "fuzzy math" in that. It's just an understanding of what "net" means.

 

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SmokinwithWilly Grand Master

SmokinwithWilly

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9 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Sorry, no.

Thia is how the transaction breaks down as far as draft picks only:

We gave the Bears our 2024 first round pick and 2025 second round pick. We exchanged our 2023 first round pick (#9) for their 2023 first round pick (#1).

That's a net loss of only one first round pick.

And again, what the organization says publicly doesn't really mean anything. None of us know yet what was said behind closed doors.

Wrong.

The trade wasn't only draft picks AND you got the picks wrong. 

We "exchanged" pick 9, 2024 1st, pick 61 and a 2025 2nd PLUS DJ Moore. That's 5 total assets traded to acquire a single player, Bryce Young. The Bears could have drafted him at 1 and then made the trade, it wouldn't have changed the outcome. 1 player for 5 assets. 

If we ended up trading BY for a bag of Skittles at some future point, then all we would have netted is a bag of Skittles for all those assets. 

What the front office has said publicly, and what their actions have confirmed all offseason, is this was never a full scale rebuild. This was plugging a QB in as the missing piece, for the 5th time in 4 years. 

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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6 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Wrong.

The trade wasn't only draft picks AND you got the picks wrong. 

We "exchanged" pick 9, 2024 1st, pick 61 and a 2025 2nd PLUS DJ Moore. That's 5 total assets traded to acquire a single player, Bryce Young. The Bears could have drafted him at 1 and then made the trade, it wouldn't have changed the outcome. 1 player for 5 assets. 

If we ended up trading BY for a bag of Skittles at some future point, then all we would have netted is a bag of Skittles for all those assets. 

What the front office has said publicly, and what their actions have confirmed all offseason, is this was never a full scale rebuild. This was plugging a QB in as the missing piece, for the 5th time in 4 years. 

Here's the incorrect portion of the post I originally replied to...

1 hour ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Trading CMC, DJ, 2 1sts, 2 2nds, for BY and DJ Johnson

I didn't address the full package. I corrected the notion that we gave up two firsts.

The only first rounder we actually gave up was next year's. The 2023 transaction was a swap of #9 for #1. That isn't "giving up" a pick.

Characterizing a pick swap as a net loss is incorrect.

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CRA Grand Master

CRA

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4 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Yes, you give one up. You also get one back. In our case, the one we got back was eight spots higher than the one we gave up.

There's no "fuzzy math" in that. It's just an understanding of what "net" means.

 

We acquired the #1 overall pick in the draft.   What did we trade to for it?   Part of what we gave for it included choosing to give them our 2023 first round pick.  We still traded it away. 

and that's pretty standard language.  Here is ESPN describing the event. 

a package including wide receiver DJ Moore, two first-round picks (2023 and 2024) and two second-round picks (2023 and 2025).

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SmokinwithWilly Grand Master

SmokinwithWilly

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Here's the incorrect portion of the post I originally replied to...

I didn't address the full package. I corrected the notion that we gave up two firsts.

The only first rounder we actually gave up was next year's. The 2023 transaction was a swap of #9 for #1.

That isn't "giving up" a pick. Characterizing a pic swap as a net loss is incorrect.

We had in our possession a 23' 1st round pick (9) and a 24' 1st round pick. Now we don't. Where did they go? 

We had to give away our rights to them in order to acquire the rights to Chicago's pick 1. Call it an exchange or a swap or whatever you want. Saying that we gave up our rights to our 23' 1st round pick as part of a package to acquire pick 1 is  100% factually correct. 

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mickeye76 Experienced

mickeye76

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I think we need to stand pat. I wouldn't unload too many players. Donte is on a fairly team friendly deal.  Burns deal will not be.  Chinn seems to not be being utilized by Envero as much as I thought he would.  I thought we would see more three safety lineups. Next year's FA is very important. We should be careful with that cap room.  I would prioritize the guys that want to stay here. I don't know if Burns fits that. He deserves a big pay day but I would use that cap space to resign Luvu, CJ Henderson, Sam Franklin and FA pieces.  Without many draft assets free agency is our best bet to make a splash. Tee Higgins needs to be a target. 

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Newtcase Experienced

Newtcase

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15 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

We had in our possession a 23' 1st round pick (9) and a 24' 1st round pick. Now we don't. Where did they go? 

We had to give away our rights to them in order to acquire the rights to Chicago's pick 1. Call it an exchange or a swap or whatever you want. Saying that we gave up our rights to our 23' 1st round pick as part of a package to acquire pick 1 is  100% factually correct. 

I think you just have to give up on this if the message hasn't been received.  Perhaps it would help if you just called it "cost" as in part of what we "paid" for Bryce instead of what we traded.  Scot just isn't connecting the dots and its painful to observe.

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mrcompletely11 Grand Master

mrcompletely11

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Just now, Newtcase said:

I think you just have to give up on this if the message hasn't been received.  Perhaps it would help if you just called it "cost" as in part of what we "paid" for Bryce instead of what we traded.  Scot just isn't connecting the dots and its painful to observe.

Why he is choosing this topic to defend Fitterer is crazy.  

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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The desperation to claw together enough wins not to hand the Bears the #1 overall pick if things are trending that way down the stretch is gonna be pretty comical to watch. Because holy poo are we gonna look like complete clowns if we hand the Bears #1 overall a year after trading a haul to get to #1 overall.

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