QB School - Bryce Young vs Miami

[Loyalty4Life]

3 minutes ago, frankw said:

I got through what I could of this word salad. Parts of it you are somewhat coherent. The rest? Ehhhh. You are honestly just riffing off classic talking points about Cam that he proved untrue years ago.

I remember hearing one of my favorite football x's and o's guy, Greg Cosell, say EXACTLY that word salad and almost every word is true.

I love Cam, then and now but anyone who thinks he could throw with anticipation is too far gone for anyone to help.  He was a see open receiver and throw a rocket at him so hard that defenders could not catch up to it.  Cam was never Tom Brady, Drew Brees or any other QB that works off timing patterns and throwing to a spot long before the receiver gets there.  

I do think the lack of paragraphs really held some people back.    

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, thebdawg said:

Interesting how once you start really talking football they stop talking football at all

I've just been around football long enough to not get impressed by cliche word salad. 

That was a classic "if you can't dazzle them with brilliance try to baffle them with bullshit" attempt.

[jayboogieman]

2 hours ago, frankw said:

Do tell.

Haven't read the whole thread, so don't know if anyone has said this, but short passes and screens. Newton was shite at them for years.

[Jackie Lee]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

They retained Campen as the OL coach. I'm not sure if he has much experience coaching zone schemes or not but I'm surprised that when he learned that's what they were gonna be running he wasn't like, "Uh... that ain't gonna work with our personnel."

Hopefully someone stands up during this bye and says Chuba run good, Miles run bad. I really don't understand whats going on so it must be some pride thing from Reich or Tepper meddling. Fitt got Sanders but he doesn't control who plays, is it Duce giving Sanders all the carries when even Blackshear looked more productive after being a healthy scratch for a month?

[frankw]

4 minutes ago, Loyalty4Life said:

I remember hearing one of my favorite football x's and o's guy, Greg Cosell, say EXACTLY that word salad and almost every word is true.

I love Cam, then and now but anyone who thinks he could throw with anticipation is too far gone for anyone to help.  He was a see open receiver and throw a rocket at him so hard that defenders could not catch up to it.  Cam was never Tom Brady, Drew Brees or any other QB that works off timing patterns and throwing to a spot long before the receiver gets there.  

I do think the lack of paragraphs really held some people back.    

https://torontosun.com/2012/11/03/why-cam-newton-is-struggling-qa-with-greg-cosell

Here's a bit of an insight into his thoughts on Newton early in his career.

Cosell was up and down on Cam but unless you can cite the article or video in question I can't help with that.

Newton's footwork is what kept him from consistently reaching that level he did in 2015. I'll concede that every single time. It's a shame but it happens. He definitely lacked touch on certain throws too. He relied on his physicality probably to a fault. But when he was on what a sight to behold. All we have now are highlights.

7 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

Haven't read the whole thread, so don't know if anyone has said this, but short passes and screens. Newton was shite at them for years.

Oh absolutely he was useless at screens. But when he first entered the league things hadn't yet changed to what we see now with a larger emphasis on short passes. That just wasn't his game at Auburn and he was never good at it in the NFL. It just is what it is.

[Jaxel]

4 minutes ago, frankw said:

https://torontosun.com/2012/11/03/why-cam-newton-is-struggling-qa-with-greg-cosell

Here's a bit of an insight into his thoughts on Newton early in his career.

Cosell was up and down on Cam but unless you can cite the article or video in question I can't help with that.

Newton's footwork is what kept him from consistently reaching that level he did in 2015. I'll concede that every single time. It's a shame but it happens. He definitely lacked touch on certain throws too. He relied on his physicality probably to a fault. But when he was on what a sight to behold. All we have now are highlights.

Oh absolutely he was useless at screens. But when he first entered the league things hadn't yet changed to what we see now with a larger emphasis on short passes. That just wasn't his game at Auburn and he was never good at it in the NFL. It just is what it is.

All I know is you had to have some strong hands and some super sticky modern gloves to catch the bullets Cam would throw. Man had an arm.

[LinvilleGorge]

8 minutes ago, frankw said:

https://torontosun.com/2012/11/03/why-cam-newton-is-struggling-qa-with-greg-cosell

Here's a bit of an insight into his thoughts on Newton early in his career.

Cosell was up and down on Cam but unless you can cite the article or video in question I can't help with that.

Newton's footwork is what kept him from consistently reaching that level he did in 2015. I'll concede that every single time. It's a shame but it happens. He definitely lacked touch on certain throws too. He relied on his physicality probably to a fault. But when he was on what a sight to behold. All we have now are highlights.

Oh absolutely he was useless at screens. But when he first entered the league things hadn't yet changed to what we see now with a larger emphasis on short passes. That just wasn't his game at Auburn and he was never good at it in the NFL. It just is what it is.

I wonder what it looks like if Cam doesn't take that hit from Watt. He was getting the ball out much quicker in Norv's offense and showing an ability to hit shorter throws like he never had before. He completed 68% of his attempts that season. We were 6-2 going into that Steelers game and Cam had thrown 15 TDs to just 4 INTs and was playing his best ball since 2015. Then that hit knocked the wheels off his career and our franchise.

[Loyalty4Life]

20 minutes ago, frankw said:

https://torontosun.com/2012/11/03/why-cam-newton-is-struggling-qa-with-greg-cosell

Here's a bit of an insight into his thoughts on Newton early in his career.

Cosell was up and down on Cam but unless you can cite the article or video in question I can't help with that.

Newton's footwork is what kept him from consistently reaching that level he did in 2015. I'll concede that every single time. It's a shame but it happens. He definitely lacked touch on certain throws too. He relied on his physicality probably to a fault. But when he was on what a sight to behold. All we have now are highlights.

https://www.foxsports.com/watch/1051897923795

Not hard to find.  

I love Cosell and Cam and I read and study a ton on NFL concepts especially when it relates to the Panthers and what they are doing.  I love learning and reading about this stuff.

And you're not wrong on what you write here or what Cosell says in that article you posted.  Don't know what it really has to do with Cam's difference from Bryce except you pointed out a couple of things that contributed to why he wasn't the type of passing that Bryce is.

Cam did actually get better at being a good passer.  His first 6 games before he injured his shoulder when we had Norv Turner as our OC.  Cam really did focus on his technique and footwork and it showed.  I would have loved to see how he continued to progress had he not gotten injured. 

Edit:

LOL, I posted this before i saw what Linville George posted above.  He's 100%.  It could have been the best version of Cam.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Loyalty4Life

[Tr3ach]

5 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Based on what? Where is the actual proof that he can effectively throw deep in the NFL?

He missed all of them by overthrowing them to be fair.

[ThrillzforthePils]

Cam got just as many shitty threads on him as Bryce has.
 

 Bryce needs more time than the front office led us to believe, whether it be his fault, the coaches, or a combination of both.  

  Unfortunately they didn’t figure it out during the offseason.  

[outlaw4]

First off, Young took some nasty shots during the Miami game and he's not currently in IR. Certainly cannot continue to have that but as of now, questions about durability have likely shifted towards AR in Indy, fair or not.

Deep passes a concern? It always has been for me but less so not being able to connect and more having the raw strength to throw heaters if that was needed. I just find it difficult to properly assess how much the issue can be attributed to Young when the conditions necessary to even attempt deep shots on a consistent enough basis are simply not there. Side note: I still remember when Josh Allen, someone who has a rocket arm, was utterly putrid with the deep ball his rookie year. 

My biggest red flag about Young was that his strengths, his accuracy/ball placement, would not translate to the NFL. At least for now, his rapport with Thielen is a positive sign given he is the type of receiver Young should work well with. Chark, not as much but I would need more insight on why he's not an effective substitute for DJ Moore. Personally, Young would work best with twitchy YAC receivers which makes me continually questioning drafting Mingo because I don't see him as a good fit at all.

Holding the ball too long is an issue although I expected it; rookie QB's often learn this the hard way. Only time will tell if Young picks this up. What magnifies the issue is that he's trying to extend the play when we don't really have playmakers that could get themselves open.

Long story short, Young's abilities aren't the flashy gunslinger scrambling type that we've had in the past. Even if our pass pro and run game was where we thought it would be, my expectation was more efficient football than exciting football. Unfortunately, too many pieces around the QB are not being effective enough and if we want a definitive answer on Young, those need to be fixed first. 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

15 hours ago, frankw said:

At this point one would have to remove all logic to deem Young a phsyical specimen with an arm capable of putting the ball wherever he wants. It's been well known he has had a little hop motion to make certain throws going back to Alabama. Or he has to put everything he has into it upon given about 5-6 seconds in the pocket to wind up a bomb to a wide open receiver (like the Alabama highlight play that's been floating around here).

If we were drafting a project QB in the late 2nd that's one thing. But we were repeatedly assured Young didn't need elite weapons to produce. Now he does. If we're going to chalk that up to things change and sometimes you get it wrong okay but that's not what we should have been looking for in a trade up to first overall for such substantial investment.

Who said anything about elite? How about we start with an average supporting cast first? Because that is not what he currently has. His supporting cast is easily one of the worst in the NFL and a defense that's given up the 2nd most points through the first 6 games. 

[TLGPanthersFan]

11 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I wonder what it looks like if Cam doesn't take that hit from Watt. He was getting the ball out much quicker in Norv's offense and showing an ability to hit shorter throws like he never had before. He completed 68% of his attempts that season. We were 6-2 going into that Steelers game and Cam had thrown 15 TDs to just 4 INTs and was playing his best ball since 2015. Then that hit knocked the wheels off his career and our franchise.

Affects didn’t start showing till a few games later. Cam was still playing well after that for a few games but we still lost. 
Getting blown out seemed to have destroyed the team’s confidence. 
Started losing to teams we should have beaten easily. Like the Lions. 

[KSpan]

11 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I wonder what it looks like if Cam doesn't take that hit from Watt. He was getting the ball out much quicker in Norv's offense and showing an ability to hit shorter throws like he never had before. He completed 68% of his attempts that season. We were 6-2 going into that Steelers game and Cam had thrown 15 TDs to just 4 INTs and was playing his best ball since 2015. Then that hit knocked the wheels off his career and our franchise.

As shown in that Amazon special and the fact that they were pulling him for Hail Marys weeks before the Pitt game, his shoulder was already deteriorating. Maybe they manage to squeeze out the season but the clock was absolutely already ticking.