QB School - Bryce Young vs Miami

[Loyalty4Life]

13 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

It seems like the entire organization was just completely blind to how much work we needed. They bought their own hype that was literally only coming from within their own echo chamber.

Bam. Boom. Winner, winner, chicken dinner.  This has been my biggest gripe next to Frank's playcalling.  The worst part is that they were really blind to how much work Bryce (or any rookie QB) needs.  You don't drop a college freshmen into graduate level courses no matter how many A's they got in high school.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Loyalty4Life

[NAS]

12 minutes ago, Loyalty4Life said:

Bryce is no where near perfect and I've said this before in other threads.  It's not critiques of Bryce that are maddening.  It's the lack of fully understanding what's going on and WHY things are happening that makes my brain hurt.

Bryce needs to be much better at throwing the ball away.  I'd love to see Bryce show some more emotional and fire.  He needs to slow down and thinking he can do all the things Frank has asked him to do at this point in his career.  

He can do a much, much better job at taking what the defense gives him.  Sometimes you just have to take the L instead of trying to pull off some magic.

There have been a lot of plays where I think he should take off and run.  It should be automatic that after 2 hitches if there is green grass in front of you, run and if you can't throw it away.

He has shown a tendency to throw just behind his receivers at times.  I don't know if that's scheme, technique breakdown or what but it happens to often.

He does not have the biggest arm but he has an average NFL arm to make all the throws in the NFL.  Look at the one in that JT video where you have the 2 posts on the right and Chark running the over.  Bryce throws it on a frozen rope 25 yards with accuracy and zip.

Part of his magic is also a curse because he throws a lot like a shortstop or baseball player.  He's able to generate power and accuracy without using some basic fundamentals and generating power from the ground up.  When he does have to throw deep he will have to throw with proper form because he doesn't have a cannon for an arm and can't flick with his wrist 40 yards.  But, this ability also allows him to throw off platform and at crazy angles and it also allows him to get rid of the ball hella quickly when he needs to.  This could also be part of the problem when he's throwing behind players.

For all his talent at reading presnap, he sure does leave some obvious blitzes to come in easily.  JT also showed a great instance of this when he got lit up in the redzone because we shifted the blocking to the weak side and Bryce looked to the weak side where we only had two possible routes.  He has to see how vulnerable that leaves him and either pull in some additional blockers or have a checkdown or at least take a glance at where the most obvious place the pressure might come from.  You always need a plan for a possible free blitzer and Bryce misses those a lot more then he should.  I expect him to be smarter and more aware of some of those obvious situations. 

 

Top post mate

[Growl]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Did you use a chat bot for that post? Because it honestly reads like you just tried to force fit in every QB analyst cliche term under the sun.

“I don’t know what you’re saying Bryce no throw ball far”

[Jackie Lee]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I never understood how people though game planning was going to fix it. You might be able to scheme around a weak link but when your entire OL looks like a sieve you can't scheme 'em up to fix that. Ickey would be on the sidelines giving an interview all happy go lucky after looking like a human turnstile. It felt like The Twilight Zone 

Only thing that worked last year was the main thing that worked in the first quarter against Miami, running the ball with aggression. Sanders isn't willing to previously, Chuba was but Reich quickly went away from it even before the game got out of hand. your'e not gonna wear a D down with dinks and dunks, and you can't use them to set up play action. And it gets your little qb hit constantly

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Growl said:

“I don’t know what you’re saying Bryce no throw ball far”

It was just some of the most nonsensical, try hard word salad I've read in quite awhile.

[Jackie Lee]

5 minutes ago, CRA said:

Seems like Frank is just as full of bologna as Matt Rhule to date.   Because very little they have said appears to be in the ballpark of true. 

this isn’t a win now team 

Bryce needed a full preseason of work 

there was never a creative offense to be unleashed 

Sanders isn’t a good 3 down RB

 

Sanders somehow earned getting most the preseason off as well...And we were sold on Duce being tough on his rb's

[Loyalty4Life]

11 minutes ago, Growl said:

ahhhh I’m starting to see what the real agenda against Bryce is here

to my point, there are absolutely things that Young does well that the Facebook rabble of this board isn’t going to comprehend but incredible for where he is at as a player-and yes-outpace where Newton was at. 
 

the effiency of movement that Bryce has dwarfs Cam, who generally labored to do anything concisely and thus he to be relied upon as a battering ram in short yardage situations. There’s a rampant myth that Rivera “ruined” Cam by running him in goal to go situations but the reality is is that Cam simply was not quick enough in tight field scenarios to routinely make those throws. They utilized his skillset and what he did well like a good coach should. Young has been excellent in those scenarios and the elasticity allows him to get it out even quicker. Cam was always a see it throw it kind of QB-something Young already does at a high level. Again, Facebook fans may not value it-but layering the ball (again, something Cam seldom did, as he generally had to rifle every ball into windows to compensate for the delay, ultimately putting a lot of strain on his shoulder) into a window before the receiver even gets there is an elite trait that scouts beg for for a guy at this stage in his career. There’s also the body control-most of Cam’s offlooks were scripted or preplanned and generally just revolves around a rapid fire headfake that seldom did its job. Bryce not only organically looks off DBs, but incorporâtes his shoulders into the bait, and-will use general pocket movement to shift defensive linemen so that he can work back to a more desirable side. He isn’t just moving away from pressure-He is literally moving the entire defense away from where he wants the ball to go. This is where the Brees comparison came from in college: this is such a rare trait, and it’s starting my to manifest at the next level. 
 

i get that most fans generally cannot perceive most of what they’re watching, but when you’re outright proud of how little you know I begin to have a problem. Every time I see someone make a processor “joke” and then follow it up by blathering on about NEED TO SEE THE BOMB I cringe 

 

Are you in my brain?  Can we be best friends?

 

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Jackie Lee said:

Only thing that worked last year was the main thing that worked in the first quarter against Miami, running the ball with aggression. Sanders isn't willing to previously, Chuba was but Reich quickly went away from it even before the game got out of hand. your'e not gonna wear a D down with dinks and dunks, and you can't use them to set up play action. And it gets your little qb hit constantly

We have an OL built for power concepts and an offense that runs primarily finesse concepts. This is not an OL built to zone block but that's what we ask them to do. The Broncos under Shanahan always had a great zone blocking OL. They generally consist of smaller, quicker OL. They rarely had a starter much over 300 pounds.

[frankw]

7 minutes ago, Growl said:

ahhhh I’m starting to see what the real agenda against Bryce is here

to my point, there are absolutely things that Young does well that the Facebook rabble of this board isn’t going to comprehend but incredible for where he is at as a player-and yes-outpace where Newton was at. 
 

the effiency of movement that Bryce has dwarfs Cam, who generally labored to do anything concisely and thus he to be relied upon as a battering ram in short yardage situations. There’s a rampant myth that Rivera “ruined” Cam by running him in goal to go situations but the reality is is that Cam simply was not quick enough in tight field scenarios to routinely make those throws. They utilized his skillset and what he did well like a good coach should. Young has been excellent in those scenarios and the elasticity allows him to get it out even quicker. Cam was always a see it throw it kind of QB-something Young already does at a high level. Again, Facebook fans may not value it-but layering the ball (again, something Cam seldom did, as he generally had to rifle every ball into windows to compensate for the delay, ultimately putting a lot of strain on his shoulder) into a window before the receiver even gets there is an elite trait that scouts beg for for a guy at this stage in his career. There’s also the body control-most of Cam’s offlooks were scripted or preplanned and generally just revolves around a rapid fire headfake that seldom did its job. Bryce not only organically looks DBs, but incorporâtes his shoulders into the bait, and-will use general pocket movement to shift defensive linemen so that he can work back to a more desirable side. He isn’t just moving away from pressure-He is literally moving the entire defense away from where he wants the ball to go. This is where the Brees comparison came from in college: this is such a rare trait, and it’s starting my to manifest at the next level. 
 

i get that most fans generally cannot perceive most of what they’re watching, but when you’re outright proud of how little you know I begin to have a problem. Every time I see someone make a processor “joke” and then follow it up by blathering on about NEED TO SEE THE BOMB I cringe

I got through what I could of this word salad. Parts of it you are somewhat coherent. The rest? Ehhhh. You are honestly just riffing off classic talking points about Cam that he proved untrue years ago. Which is ironic considering you have the nerve to talk about an agenda. Yours is plain to see. But I think the crux of your argument hinges on some level of mythical hype you've conjured up about Bryce Young in your head. There are things about him we just don't know yet until he shows it. What he does well bodes positively for his football IQ going forward. What he doesn't do well bodes troublesome concerns around his phsyical traits that are average. But he has time to grow in those aspects. I do not think he is going to change all that much over the next few years as far as his build though. The plus side is so far he's been a tough bastard behind a subpar OL and against some tough pass rushing opponents. That's commendable. But the rest of the season is going to be about what Bryce Young can show as a passer. All the other moving parts we can discuss as much as we like but there has to be progress in the mid range to deep passing categories. You can throw tantrums about this in all caps if it makes you feel better but truly almost everyone here wants him and the team to succeed. We don't have to subscribe to your borderline manifestoesque ramblings to be Carolina Panthers fans. We're here.

[Jackie Lee]

2 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We have an OL built for power concepts and an offense that runs primarily finesse concepts. This is not an OL built to zone block but that's what we ask them to do. The Broncos under Shanahan always had a great zone blocking OL. They generally consist of smaller, quicker OL. They rarely had a starter much over 300 pounds.

The run scheme was honestly hard to judge when Sanders was getting all of the snaps. Game 1 and first quarter of last week Chuba was getting it done. I'm not rewatching the garbage to see if he struggled later in the game or if Reich just abandoned the run altogether again

[Jackie Lee]

Hopefully Brown can pull out a little Chucky out of the good guy

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

The run scheme was honestly hard to judge when Sanders was getting all of the snaps. Game 1 and first quarter of last week Chuba was getting it done. I'm not rewatching the garbage to see if he struggled later in the game or if Reich just abandoned the run altogether again

They retained Campen as the OL coach. I'm not sure if he has much experience coaching zone schemes or not but I'm surprised that when he learned that's what they were gonna be running he wasn't like, "Uh... that ain't gonna work with our personnel."

[Bear Hands]

4 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

So 14:50 is where he attempts he deep pass to Chark to those who are interested.  He has to rush it because he OG is worthless and gets hit at the end of his motion.  However it was an overthrow by about 4-5 yards.  If he could have held it for one more split second it would have been nice.  This tells me he is capable of hitting deep throws, he needs a decent interior OL to do it regularly, but the arm talent to get the ball there was fine just rushed it causing an overthrow.  

He had a beautiful deep shot in school against K State throwing in nearly perfect coverage by JuJu Brents.  He's got the ability in the right situation.  Arguable what the "situation" exactly is and how much he can carry but I'm not all doom here.  

When it comes down to it, from what we've seen so far, I think what those who want the deep shots get annoyed about these high misses to the sidelines that are seemingly never in play.  He did it in school as well, it's not just scheme, but he also turned around and still managed to crank out game winning drives with Jameson.  He's a unique QB.  He won't have the velocity and zip you see from the Herbert/Allen/Stafford, but it doesn't mean he can't succeed. 

There's always a middle ground, and right now, it's between being patient and writing him off.  

[thebdawg]

15 minutes ago, Growl said:

“I don’t know what you’re saying Bryce no throw ball far”

Interesting how once you start really talking football they stop talking football at all