QB School - Bryce Young vs Miami

[Stuart Smith]

4 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

I'm ok with Teddy for a rookie through the first 5 games, but he and our offense needs to progress past it.  Let's hope Brown can get our whole offense more aggressive and Young some looks down the field for him to take.  

If he had played in the preseason it might have helped. His first 3 games were basically his preseason. 

[top dawg]

1 minute ago, jfra78 said:

He uses his whole body to throw deep unlike a strong arm QB who can just use his arm to throw deep.  

Bryce never had a cannon. We all knew that before he was drafted. That wasn't his strength (no pun intended).

[jfra78]

3 minutes ago, top dawg said:

Bryce never had a cannon. We all knew that before he was drafted. That wasn't his strength (no pun intended).

My point was that if he had a strong arm, he could have gotten the pass out quicker and not needed the extra split second that the poster that I quoted blamed on th OL

[ForJimmy]

8 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

He uses his whole body to throw deep unlike a strong arm QB who can just use his arm to throw deep.  

Most QBs have to step into a throw that deep. There may be a select few with super human arms, but he isn’t one of those.

[top dawg]

2 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

My point was that if he had a strong arm, he could have gotten the pass out quicker and not needed the extra split second that the poster that I quoted blamed on th OL

I think that's a stretch, but O.K.

[Loyalty4Life]

2 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

Bryce is perfect, everyone else sucks.  Only view you can have on this forum

Bryce is no where near perfect and I've said this before in other threads.  It's not critiques of Bryce that are maddening.  It's the lack of fully understanding what's going on and WHY things are happening that makes my brain hurt.

Bryce needs to be much better at throwing the ball away.  I'd love to see Bryce show some more emotional and fire.  He needs to slow down and thinking he can do all the things Frank has asked him to do at this point in his career.  

He can do a much, much better job at taking what the defense gives him.  Sometimes you just have to take the L instead of trying to pull off some magic.

There have been a lot of plays where I think he should take off and run.  It should be automatic that after 2 hitches if there is green grass in front of you, run and if you can't throw it away.

He has shown a tendency to throw just behind his receivers at times.  I don't know if that's scheme, technique breakdown or what but it happens to often.

He does not have the biggest arm but he has an average NFL arm to make all the throws in the NFL.  Look at the one in that JT video where you have the 2 posts on the right and Chark running the over.  Bryce throws it on a frozen rope 25 yards with accuracy and zip.

Part of his magic is also a curse because he throws a lot like a shortstop or baseball player.  He's able to generate power and accuracy without using some basic fundamentals and generating power from the ground up.  When he does have to throw deep he will have to throw with proper form because he doesn't have a cannon for an arm and can't flick with his wrist 40 yards.  But, this ability also allows him to throw off platform and at crazy angles and it also allows him to get rid of the ball hella quickly when he needs to.  This could also be part of the problem when he's throwing behind players.

For all his talent at reading presnap, he sure does leave some obvious blitzes to come in easily.  JT also showed a great instance of this when he got lit up in the redzone because we shifted the blocking to the weak side and Bryce looked to the weak side where we only had two possible routes.  He has to see how vulnerable that leaves him and either pull in some additional blockers or have a checkdown or at least take a glance at where the most obvious place the pressure might come from.  You always need a plan for a possible free blitzer and Bryce misses those a lot more then he should.  I expect him to be smarter and more aware of some of those obvious situations. 

 

[LinvilleGorge]

8 minutes ago, Stuart Smith said:

If he had played in the preseason it might have helped. His first 3 games were basically his preseason. 

We approached preseason like we were a team expected to be Super Bowl contenders with few questions marks and had it all figured out. Not a team with a rookie QB, new coaching staff, and new systems to install. It was baffling at the time and it's kinda infuriating now seeing how poo we are. It seems like the entire organization was just completely blind to how much work we needed. They bought their own hype that was literally only coming from within their own echo chamber.

[Jackie Lee]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

We approached preseason like we were a team expected to be Super Bowl contenders with few questions marks and had it all figured out. Not a team with a rookie QB, new coaching staff, and new systems to install. It was baffling at the time and it's kinda infuriating now seeing how poo we are. It seems like the entire organization was just completely blind to how much work we needed. They bought their own hype that was literally only coming from within their own echo chamber.

Hey Reich said he was willing to "take it on the chin" playing vanilla in preseason to not reveal his grand play calling. That still didn't explain why our O-line was getting killed on routine matchups

[Growl]

1 hour ago, frankw said:

Do tell.

ahhhh I’m starting to see what the real agenda against Bryce is here

to my point, there are absolutely things that Young does well that the Facebook rabble of this board isn’t going to comprehend but incredible for where he is at as a player-and yes-outpace where Newton was at. 
 

the effiency of movement that Bryce has dwarfs Cam, who generally labored to do anything concisely and thus he to be relied upon as a battering ram in short yardage situations. There’s a rampant myth that Rivera “ruined” Cam by running him in goal to go situations but the reality is is that Cam simply was not quick enough in tight field scenarios to routinely make those throws. They utilized his skillset and what he did well like a good coach should. Young has been excellent in those scenarios and the elasticity allows him to get it out even quicker. Cam was always a see it throw it kind of QB-something Young already does at a high level. Again, Facebook fans may not value it-but layering the ball (again, something Cam seldom did, as he generally had to rifle every ball into windows to compensate for the delay, ultimately putting a lot of strain on his shoulder) into a window before the receiver even gets there is an elite trait that scouts beg for for a guy at this stage in his career. There’s also the body control-most of Cam’s offlooks were scripted or preplanned and generally just revolves around a rapid fire headfake that seldom did its job. Bryce not only organically looks off DBs, but incorporâtes his shoulders into the bait, and-will use general pocket movement to shift defensive linemen so that he can work back to a more desirable side. He isn’t just moving away from pressure-He is literally moving the entire defense away from where he wants the ball to go. This is where the Brees comparison came from in college: this is such a rare trait, and it’s starting my to manifest at the next level. 
 

i get that most fans generally cannot perceive most of what they’re watching, but when you’re outright proud of how little you know I begin to have a problem. Every time I see someone make a processor “joke” and then follow it up by blathering on about NEED TO SEE THE BOMB I cringe 

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Growl

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, Jackie Lee said:

Hey Reich said he was willing to "take it on the chin" playing vanilla in preseason to not reveal his grand play calling. That still didn't explain why our O-line was getting killed on routine matchups

I never understood how people though game planning was going to fix it. You might be able to scheme around a weak link but when your entire OL looks like a sieve you can't scheme 'em up to fix that. Ickey would be on the sidelines giving an interview all happy go lucky after looking like a human turnstile. It felt like The Twilight Zone 

[Loyalty4Life]

I posted this in the game day thread.

Look at what is coming at Bryce as he throws the deep pass to Chark.  Look at Tua on the right and what kind of pocket he has on this deep throw for a TD to Reek.  I'll give you a hint.  All the guys in white jerseys are closer to the QB and all the guys in blue jerseys are farther away.

The bottom two panels are how these guys are able to follow through on their throws.  Being able to follow through on deep passes is crucial for accuracy and power. 

Tua even shows off by holding that follow through for like 5 seconds after the pass while no Panther ever gets within 5 feet of him.

[CRA]

3 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

Hey Reich said he was willing to "take it on the chin" playing vanilla in preseason to not reveal his grand play calling. That still didn't explain why our O-line was getting killed on routine matchups

Seems like Frank is just as full of bologna as Matt Rhule to date.   Because very little they have said appears to be in the ballpark of true. 

this isn’t a win now team 

Bryce needed a full preseason of work 

there was never a creative offense to be unleashed 

Sanders isn’t a good 3 down RB

 

[Growl]

28 minutes ago, Loyalty4Life said:

Good grief.  JT has said it in virtually every video he's done of Bryce.  The Panthers, no matter what PR BS they told the media before the season, are not putting Bryce in position to showcase what he can do.

I honestly don't know if he can throw the deep ball in the NFL because the combination of playcalling, oline protection and offensive scheme are not setting up those opportunities.    No team just decides, hey we need to take some deep shots and randomly throws some into the gameplan. 

You have to be able to protect your QB and have the time to throw them.  I should say that x3.

Even in the play to Chark when Chark beat his man our oline could not pick up the stunt which we have struggled with all year and Bryce has a free runner right in his face.  JT was exactly right, he threw it and quickly bailed to protect himself because of the rushing d-linemen we didn't block at all coming full speed right at him. 

Getting lit up numerous times already each game and twice really badly earlier in that game is going to make anyone not want to lineup for another killshot.  

The first two hard hits he never saw coming but this one was easy for him to see.  On one hand I'd love for him to take the hit and throw a good pass.  On the other hand that's a good way to get seriously injured.  These guys are human.  I don't want my QB taking unblocked killshots unless it's playoffs or Superbowl. 

What I really want is for the freakin oline to not get beat like a drum.  Yeah, we've got backups at both guards spots and a line that isn't built for zone scheme pass blocking.  Here's a hell of an idea.  Don't go 5 wide.  Keep some extra guys in to block more often.  I know Frank wants to go all super WCO passing 80% of the time with 10 receivers all running routes and Bryce left alone to fend for himself.  It a miracle they leave him 5 blockers.

I fully expect us in our next game to use a lot more 2 TE sets.  Give Bryce more protection.  Run more to set up the pass.  When the run game is going and you're running out of heavier sets it's much easier to take long shots because you have more guys to block, teams worry about the run more and it's hella easy to move the pocket and roll Bryce out away from pressure and slide the line that way.  

There are all kinds of things from a scheme and playcalling standpoint we can do so that Bryce isn't left out on an island so f'n' much.  Frank wants his scheme to work so bad he's overlooking the fact that it's actually a detriment to Bryce and the team, not to mention we don't have the personal to run it.

it’s honestly not just the protection up front, even if that’s obviously biggest component

Marshall pulling up vs Atlanta gets a lot of criticism, but we’ve been late getting upfield at various points. The Mingo “overthrow” against the saints was exactly where it needed to be, and would’ve been a touchdown if the Z hadn’t let the DB jam the route so easily at the intersection of the rub that Mingo and whoever was outside ran into each other 

It’s always something little like that, and when you’re trying to throw the ball down the field, things generally need to be perfect 

[LinvilleGorge]

3 minutes ago, Growl said:

ahhhh I’m starting to see what the real agenda against Bryce is here

to my point, there are absolutely things that Young does well that the Facebook rabble of this board isn’t going to comprehend but incredible for where he is at as a player-and yes-outpace where Newton was at. 
 

the effiency of movement that Bryce has dwarfs Cam, who generally labored to do anything concisely and thus he to be relied upon as a battering ram in short yardage situations. There’s a rampant myth that Rivera “ruined” Cam by running him in goal to go situations but the reality is is that Cam simply was not quick enough in tight field scenarios to routinely make those throws. They utilized his skillset and what he did well like a good coach should. Young has been excellent in those scenarios and the elasticity allows him to get it out even quicker. Cam was always a see it throw it kind of QB-something Young already does at a high level. Again, Facebook fans may not value it-but layering the ball (again, something Cam seldom did, as he generally had to rifle every ball into windows to compensate for the delay, ultimately putting a lot of strain on his shoulder) into a window before the receiver even gets there is an elite trait that scouts beg for for a guy at this stage in his career. There’s also the body control-most of Cam’s offlooks were scripted or preplanned and generally just revolves around a rapid fire headfake that seldom did its job. Bryce not only organically looks DBs, but incorporâtes his shoulders into the bait, and-will use general pocket movement to shift defensive linemen so that he can work back to a more desirable side. He isn’t just moving away from pressure-He is literally moving the entire defense away from where he wants the ball to go. This is where the Brees comparison came from in college: this is such a rare trait, and it’s starting my to manifest at the next level. 
 

i get that most fans generally cannot perceive most of what they’re watching, but when you’re outright proud of how little you know I begin to have a problem. Every time I see someone make a processor “joke” and then follow it up by blathering on about NEED TO SEE THE BOMB I cringe 

 

Did you use a chat bot for that post? Because it honestly reads like you just tried to force fit in every QB analyst cliche term under the sun.