Official GameDay Thread

[Loyalty4Life]

13 minutes ago, Proudiddy said:

Ok.  I understand that.  But we've also seen enough football in our lifetimes to see enough examples of seeing players demonstrate time and again that they are not NFL starter material. Now, how often did franchises waste years of assets and resources trying everything in their power to make that not the case once they clearly saw the mistake they made, making the hole they already were in deeper and deeper?

Brother, we have a former Pro Bowler in Chark, a damn good proven receiver in Thielen, a 2nd rounder invested in Mingo, and all of that was invested this year to help Bryce.  As soon as Bryce started to show signs of struggle, Chark and Thielen all of sudden were horrible according to the masses at the sacrificial altar of Bryce.  The poo is ridiculous.  Then I pointed out Thielen is the best slot statistically in the league, and you say it's further evidence the rest of the cast is part of the problem.  You think me pointing out his struggles is biased, but you literally, despite using objective language, are biased skewing in favor of Bryce, and that's evident in the discussion about Thielen and the supporting cast...  with all due respect.

So, while I understand the process and letting it play out, the facts are, we have already poured a ton of resources into this project.  We already completely pushed all of our chips in the table and sold out to make things as optimal as we could for Bryce coming into his rookie year.  And now all of a sudden our OL sucks ass?  Our receivers suck ass?  Our RBs are ass?  Everything is ass but Bryce.  I understand he is a rookie, but we're seeing him struggle with basic things you expect of a starting-level QB in the NFL despite all of the resources our franchise has poured into making him successful as a rookie.  That is not encouraging at all.  And despite babysteps made in his development, we have not had one "Ah-Ha" moment where collectively we can all say, "now that is why we drafted him #1 overall!"

So yes, we can give him two full years, but when a guy can't make basic NFL throws because he lacks the ability to, that has nothing to do with the staff or talent around him.  If you try ten times, I expect you to come close at least once, and he doesn't...  that doesn't come with time or development.  The stuff he is missing is evident because you either can do it from day one, or you can't.  AR and Stroud might not test well, and they might not have the greatest anticipation ever, but if a guy flashes open 25 yards downfield, they can get it to him with the flick of a wrist and complete it.  Bryce cannot and has not.  And when defenses play you like you can't, that tends to make everything else harder- they get super aggressive with blitzes and load the box on the run because they don't have to defend anything 20+ yards downfield or anything on the sidelines...  so by default, him playing puts us at a disadvantage because defense don't have to play the entire field and essentially can compress it down to 15 x 15 yard box bases off the throws he is comfortable and capable of making.  This is evident in his passing charts.  It's fact.  And yet, we have people blaming everyone but him for why every facet of our offense looks so dysfunctional.  It is incredible the amount of denial in defense of him.  

Again, I wanted him to succeed regardless if I wanted him to eb the pick or not, because our success was dependent on his success.  I would be fuging ecstatic if he miraculously turned it around and found Mike's secret stuff over the bye week and came out looking like what we wanted and expect from a #1 overall pick...  hell, I'd even settle for a 4th round pick at this point.  But, again,all of the red flags are there that this is trending to be a bust.  

But ok...  give him two years so we can see more of what most who have watched football their whole lives already know.  Again, I would love to be wrong, and would be the first to happily admit I am if he could turn it around...  but I'm confident that he won't because of what we're seeing.  

Yes, we and every NFL coach, player, and scout has seen enough football in our lifetimes to THINK we know what is and isn't NFL starter material yet we and every expert no matter the level of experience have been 100% wrong.

The list of guys who everyone expected to be great and busted along with every player people said wasn't any good but turned out to be a baller is a very, very long list.

Going extreme is either direction is harmful.  You don't hang on to Bryce and keep trying to make him work if he doesn't turn into the franchise QB after 3,4,5, 6 or however long is too long.  I don't know how much time might be too long to beat a dead horse but I do not it's not a few weeks after it's born.  Calling for the glue factory when Bryce is still in training wheels is crazy.

You say if he tries 10 times and doesn't come close (referring to his deep passing completions) then that is so bad no amount of practice can fix that.  I would tend to agree if you nothing else affected or causes his throws to be off target.

We know our receivers have struggled in getting seperation on the routes and concepts the coaches are calling.  We know we don't have much of a run game to take pressure off Bryce.  We know the Oline isn't consistently pass blocking well and giving him time to make good throws.  

I showed actual screen grabs from Young's "overthrow" to Chark and from Tua's TD pass to Hill.  You can easily see the difference in protection and the ability for the QB to follow through with good technique.  Bryce has a free rusher coming right at him before he even throws the ball and then the pressure from that linemen as well as another or busted through causes Bryce to throw it early, off timing and he's not able to follow through at all.  He ends up doing kind of a full 360 spin leaning back and take a hit.

Tua has zero pressure, great form and stands there holding the following through like a boss for like 5 seconds after he throws it.  No one ever got remotely close to him.

Now, this is one instance but I have not seen Bryce is a remotely similar situation that Tua had and STILL overthrow his WR.

You are 100% right on how defenses are playing Bryce and how that severely limits his play.  Where we disagree is why defenses are playing Bryce like that.  Is it his inability to make those throws due to arm strength, intelligence, accuracy or is it caused by other factors like no run game, WR's getting separation, play calling, scheme, etc.

I just proved in my example above that for that play Bryce did not have enough time because of the rush, was pressured when he made the throw and could not use good technique and follow through to have good accuracy.  

We saw 100% proof in the first quarter that with a good run game to allow him more time and a clean pocket he can throw some lasers.  He's shown touch on the ball when he needs it and the ability to throw a dart as well.  The TD pass to Theilen was a laser and had some really, really nice zip on the ball.  It was a rocket and was thrown a little high to get it over the top of the defender.  Thielen made a great catch cause that ball was moving.  I've watched almost all of his games more than once and seen the all 22 on a few.

He's making some NFL level highly skilled throws and I can go back and show you tons of them.  He has the ability.  I can also show you horrible throws he's had but they usually happen due to other factor and his bad decisions.  He does have more throws that are not leading his targets enough and for whatever reason are a hair behind his receiver but I've seen that less and less each game so I think that's just a matter of him getting used to NFL windows, his receivers, etc. 

When you go back and look at his film it's pretty easy to tell the passes and decisions that are 100% his fault.  Holding onto the ball to long leading to fumbles or not seeing a defender or anticipating a defender like in both his int in the ATL game.

If we were the 49ers and Bryce was playing like this I'm be hella worried.  Bryce is not playing great but he's a rookie, he's got a reason.  The rest of the team are also playing badly and making it even harder for Bryce.  Those other players have been around.  They have NFL experience.  These coaches have been around and have tons of experience so it just so happens that every aspect of the team needs to be better and is subpar but we can fully say Bryce is the problem and can't/won't make it as a successful NFL QB.

NFL QB gets way too much glory when you win and way too much hate when you lose.  For some reason the Huddle seems to times that by 100 and will probably do it both wins.

[mrcompletely11]

23 minutes ago, Loyalty4Life said:

Yes, we and every NFL coach, player, and scout has seen enough football in our lifetimes to THINK we know what is and isn't NFL starter material yet we and every expert no matter the level of experience have been 100% wrong.

The list of guys who everyone expected to be great and busted along with every player people said wasn't any good but turned out to be a baller is a very, very long list.

Going extreme is either direction is harmful.  You don't hang on to Bryce and keep trying to make him work if he doesn't turn into the franchise QB after 3,4,5, 6 or however long is too long.  I don't know how much time might be too long to beat a dead horse but I do not it's not a few weeks after it's born.  Calling for the glue factory when Bryce is still in training wheels is crazy.

You say if he tries 10 times and doesn't come close (referring to his deep passing completions) then that is so bad no amount of practice can fix that.  I would tend to agree if you nothing else affected or causes his throws to be off target.

We know our receivers have struggled in getting seperation on the routes and concepts the coaches are calling.  We know we don't have much of a run game to take pressure off Bryce.  We know the Oline isn't consistently pass blocking well and giving him time to make good throws.  

I showed actual screen grabs from Young's "overthrow" to Chark and from Tua's TD pass to Hill.  You can easily see the difference in protection and the ability for the QB to follow through with good technique.  Bryce has a free rusher coming right at him before he even throws the ball and then the pressure from that linemen as well as another or busted through causes Bryce to throw it early, off timing and he's not able to follow through at all.  He ends up doing kind of a full 360 spin leaning back and take a hit.

Tua has zero pressure, great form and stands there holding the following through like a boss for like 5 seconds after he throws it.  No one ever got remotely close to him.

Now, this is one instance but I have not seen Bryce is a remotely similar situation that Tua had and STILL overthrow his WR.

You are 100% right on how defenses are playing Bryce and how that severely limits his play.  Where we disagree is why defenses are playing Bryce like that.  Is it his inability to make those throws due to arm strength, intelligence, accuracy or is it caused by other factors like no run game, WR's getting separation, play calling, scheme, etc.

I just proved in my example above that for that play Bryce did not have enough time because of the rush, was pressured when he made the throw and could not use good technique and follow through to have good accuracy.  

We saw 100% proof in the first quarter that with a good run game to allow him more time and a clean pocket he can throw some lasers.  He's shown touch on the ball when he needs it and the ability to throw a dart as well.  The TD pass to Theilen was a laser and had some really, really nice zip on the ball.  It was a rocket and was thrown a little high to get it over the top of the defender.  Thielen made a great catch cause that ball was moving.  I've watched almost all of his games more than once and seen the all 22 on a few.

He's making some NFL level highly skilled throws and I can go back and show you tons of them.  He has the ability.  I can also show you horrible throws he's had but they usually happen due to other factor and his bad decisions.  He does have more throws that are not leading his targets enough and for whatever reason are a hair behind his receiver but I've seen that less and less each game so I think that's just a matter of him getting used to NFL windows, his receivers, etc. 

When you go back and look at his film it's pretty easy to tell the passes and decisions that are 100% his fault.  Holding onto the ball to long leading to fumbles or not seeing a defender or anticipating a defender like in both his int in the ATL game.

If we were the 49ers and Bryce was playing like this I'm be hella worried.  Bryce is not playing great but he's a rookie, he's got a reason.  The rest of the team are also playing badly and making it even harder for Bryce.  Those other players have been around.  They have NFL experience.  These coaches have been around and have tons of experience so it just so happens that every aspect of the team needs to be better and is subpar but we can fully say Bryce is the problem and can't/won't make it as a successful NFL QB.

NFL QB gets way too much glory when you win and way too much hate when you lose.  For some reason the Huddle seems to times that by 100 and will probably do it both wins.

Wtf?

[CamWhoaaCam]

1 hour ago, Proudiddy said:

Ok.  I understand that.  But we've also seen enough football in our lifetimes to see enough examples of seeing players demonstrate time and again that they are not NFL starter material. Now, how often did franchises waste years of assets and resources trying everything in their power to make that not the case once they clearly saw the mistake they made, making the hole they already were in deeper and deeper?

Brother, we have a former Pro Bowler in Chark, a damn good proven receiver in Thielen, a 2nd rounder invested in Mingo, and all of that was invested this year to help Bryce.  As soon as Bryce started to show signs of struggle, Chark and Thielen all of sudden were horrible according to the masses at the sacrificial altar of Bryce.  The poo is ridiculous.  Then I pointed out Thielen is the best slot statistically in the league, and you say it's further evidence the rest of the cast is part of the problem.  You think me pointing out his struggles is biased, but you literally, despite using objective language, are biased skewing in favor of Bryce, and that's evident in the discussion about Thielen and the supporting cast...  with all due respect.

So, while I understand the process and letting it play out, the facts are, we have already poured a ton of resources into this project.  We already completely pushed all of our chips in the table and sold out to make things as optimal as we could for Bryce coming into his rookie year.  And now all of a sudden our OL sucks ass?  Our receivers suck ass?  Our RBs are ass?  Everything is ass but Bryce.  I understand he is a rookie, but we're seeing him struggle with basic things you expect of a starting-level QB in the NFL despite all of the resources our franchise has poured into making him successful as a rookie.  That is not encouraging at all.  And despite babysteps made in his development, we have not had one "Ah-Ha" moment where collectively we can all say, "now that is why we drafted him #1 overall!"

So yes, we can give him two full years, but when a guy can't make basic NFL throws because he lacks the ability to, that has nothing to do with the staff or talent around him.  If you try ten times, I expect you to come close at least once, and he doesn't...  that doesn't come with time or development.  The stuff he is missing is evident because you either can do it from day one, or you can't.  AR and Stroud might not test well, and they might not have the greatest anticipation ever, but if a guy flashes open 25 yards downfield, they can get it to him with the flick of a wrist and complete it.  Bryce cannot and has not.  And when defenses play you like you can't, that tends to make everything else harder- they get super aggressive with blitzes and load the box on the run because they don't have to defend anything 20+ yards downfield or anything on the sidelines...  so by default, him playing puts us at a disadvantage because defense don't have to play the entire field and essentially can compress it down to 15 x 15 yard box bases off the throws he is comfortable and capable of making.  This is evident in his passing charts.  It's fact.  And yet, we have people blaming everyone but him for why every facet of our offense looks so dysfunctional.  It is incredible the amount of denial in defense of him.  

Again, I wanted him to succeed regardless if I wanted him to eb the pick or not, because our success was dependent on his success.  I would be fuging ecstatic if he miraculously turned it around and found Mike's secret stuff over the bye week and came out looking like what we wanted and expect from a #1 overall pick...  hell, I'd even settle for a 4th round pick at this point.  But, again,all of the red flags are there that this is trending to be a bust.  

But ok...  give him two years so we can see more of what most who have watched football their whole lives already know.  Again, I would love to be wrong, and would be the first to happily admit I am if he could turn it around...  but I'm confident that he won't because of what we're seeing.  

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by CamWhoaaCam

[Loyalty4Life]

14 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Wtf?

Man, either join the discussion or STFU.  Your one liners from the peanut gallery to half of my posts today are all insulting or passive aggressive and antagonistic.

[CamWhoaaCam]

4 minutes ago, Loyalty4Life said:

Man, either join the discussion or STFU.  Your one liners from the peanut gallery to half of my posts today are all insulting or passive aggressive and antagonistic.

lmao

 

This is why I love the huddle. You guys are hilarious!

[Loyalty4Life]

10 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

lmao

 

This is why I love the huddle. You guys are hilarious!

I have often been accused of being highly entertaining. 

I'm 48 years old and I'm either arguing with other old dudes with nothing better to do on a Sunday while watching sucky football and looking for slivers of hope or some 12 year old in his basement smelling his own farts and laughing at me.

It is what it is.

[CamWhoaaCam]

2 minutes ago, Loyalty4Life said:

I have often been accused of being highly entertaining. 

I'm 48 years old and I'm either arguing with other old dudes with nothing better to do on a Sunday while watching sucky football and looking for slivers of hope or some 12 year old in his basement smelling his own farts and laughing at me.

It is what it is.

Sucks we can't all get along.

[frankw]

Nicole Tepper avatar lol. The boot licking knows no bounds for some.

[DavidEng]

1 hour ago, CPF4LIFE said:

Before this game, bryce had legitimately contributed to all the losses with costly turnovers and literally help spotting the other team points and fans STILL said he wasn't part of the reason.

At this point this statement doesn't accomplish anything.

Agree, you’re statement accomplished nothing. Bryce played a good game and continues to improve. 

[Loyalty4Life]

23 minutes ago, frankw said:

Nicole Tepper avatar lol. The boot licking knows no bounds for some.

Hey, if every time I post anything good about Bryce it's meet with cat calls calling me Nicole might as well fit the part. 

Funny thing is I bet 95% of people on her and most of whom have made those types of comments would not even have known that was her.  It's elite level trolling, not boot licking.  <grin>

Edited October 16, 2023 by Loyalty4Life

[frankw]

41 minutes ago, Loyalty4Life said:

Hey, if every time I post anything good about Bryce it's meet with cat calls calling me Nicole might as well fit the part. 

Funny thing is I bet 95% of people on her and most of whom have made those types of comments would not even have known that was her.  It's elite level trolling, not boot licking.  <grin>

I'm sure she's a nice woman. If somehow she can put aside her and her husband's ego and convince him to hire a real NFL mind with years of experience to assess the situation search for a GM and assemble a new front office in the offseason I won't have anything negative to say at all.

[Silent Majority]

3 hours ago, Proudiddy said:

Ok.  I understand that.  But we've also seen enough football in our lifetimes to see enough examples of seeing players demonstrate time and again that they are not NFL starter material. Now, how often did franchises waste years of assets and resources trying everything in their power to make that not the case once they clearly saw the mistake they made, making the hole they already were in deeper and deeper?

Brother, we have a former Pro Bowler in Chark, a damn good proven receiver in Thielen, a 2nd rounder invested in Mingo, and all of that was invested this year to help Bryce.  As soon as Bryce started to show signs of struggle, Chark and Thielen all of sudden were horrible according to the masses at the sacrificial altar of Bryce.  The poo is ridiculous.  Then I pointed out Thielen is the best slot statistically in the league, and you say it's further evidence the rest of the cast is part of the problem.  You think me pointing out his struggles is biased, but you literally, despite using objective language, are biased skewing in favor of Bryce, and that's evident in the discussion about Thielen and the supporting cast...  with all due respect.

So, while I understand the process and letting it play out, the facts are, we have already poured a ton of resources into this project.  We already completely pushed all of our chips in the table and sold out to make things as optimal as we could for Bryce coming into his rookie year.  And now all of a sudden our OL sucks ass?  Our receivers suck ass?  Our RBs are ass?  Everything is ass but Bryce.  I understand he is a rookie, but we're seeing him struggle with basic things you expect of a starting-level QB in the NFL despite all of the resources our franchise has poured into making him successful as a rookie.  That is not encouraging at all.  And despite babysteps made in his development, we have not had one "Ah-Ha" moment where collectively we can all say, "now that is why we drafted him #1 overall!"

So yes, we can give him two full years, but when a guy can't make basic NFL throws because he lacks the ability to, that has nothing to do with the staff or talent around him.  If you try ten times, I expect you to come close at least once, and he doesn't...  that doesn't come with time or development.  The stuff he is missing is evident because you either can do it from day one, or you can't.  AR and Stroud might not test well, and they might not have the greatest anticipation ever, but if a guy flashes open 25 yards downfield, they can get it to him with the flick of a wrist and complete it.  Bryce cannot and has not.  And when defenses play you like you can't, that tends to make everything else harder- they get super aggressive with blitzes and load the box on the run because they don't have to defend anything 20+ yards downfield or anything on the sidelines...  so by default, him playing puts us at a disadvantage because defense don't have to play the entire field and essentially can compress it down to 15 x 15 yard box bases off the throws he is comfortable and capable of making.  This is evident in his passing charts.  It's fact.  And yet, we have people blaming everyone but him for why every facet of our offense looks so dysfunctional.  It is incredible the amount of denial in defense of him.  

Again, I wanted him to succeed regardless if I wanted him to eb the pick or not, because our success was dependent on his success.  I would be fuging ecstatic if he miraculously turned it around and found Mike's secret stuff over the bye week and came out looking like what we wanted and expect from a #1 overall pick...  hell, I'd even settle for a 4th round pick at this point.  But, again,all of the red flags are there that this is trending to be a bust.  

But ok...  give him two years so we can see more of what most who have watched football their whole lives already know.  Again, I would love to be wrong, and would be the first to happily admit I am if he could turn it around...  but I'm confident that he won't because of what we're seeing.  

1000000% this

[Varking]

16 hours ago, Loyalty4Life said:

Hey, if every time I post anything good about Bryce it's meet with cat calls calling me Nicole might as well fit the part. 

Funny thing is I bet 95% of people on her and most of whom have made those types of comments would not even have known that was her.  It's elite level trolling, not boot licking.  <grin>

It’s solid trolling. I don’t know who it was. 

[mrcompletely11]

fug just heard bryces presser from the game and all he says is "um, you know" over and over and over.  And this is the dude that wowed the teppers at dinner?  fug we are screwed, um you know

the face of our franchise kiddos

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by mrcompletely11