Tanking as a strategy

[Varking]

6 minutes ago, Growl said:

Yeah I mean you’re going to take L’s when you’re trying to build. 
You can either space them out or try to space them all out like we’ve done.

lot of people are having a difficult time right now because their expectations were so unreasonable, I get the feeling it’s the same people who were so anti-tank last season.

this would be a much better ball club had they simply accepted where they were at objectively last season and pulled the band aid.

I was not anti-tank. But I did have high expectations for this season. I thought we would be competing for a playoff spot. Our offensive line should have been better this year, our RB situation should have been better this year, our coaching situation should have been better this year and I thought there is no way Bryce performs worse than Darnold or Baker and that team in chaos last season won 7 games. Heck, while losing DJ the pitch was we lost the top of the WR room but the entire room should be deeper now with Chark, AT, a second rounder in TMJ going into year 3, a second rounder in Mingo, Laviska with another year here in Carolina etc. 

Looking around on paper before the season started all the signs were there for this team to be competitive. Hindsight is 20/20 or whatever so its easy to second guess. 

5 wins seemed reasonable, fighting for a playoff spot with 9 wins seems attainable. Now it looks like we might finish with a top pick in the draft which means:

PANTHERS GET:

Bryce Young - QB

 

BEARS GET:

DJ Moore - #1 WR

Darnell Wright - #1 LT

Tyrique Stevenson - #2 CB

Carolina First Round Pick in 2024 - Caleb Williams, Drake Maye, Marvin Harrison JR? This could also lead to the Bears flipping this pick for even more picks. 

Carolina Second Round Pick in 2025 - If we don't improve enough this could be another high end second round pick. 

It hurts looking at gaining a young QB but having to give up a stud young WR, a stud young offensive lineman and a good young corner when that is three positions of need for Carolina, plus we still have items left on the table coming up that could be an even higher ceiling set of QBs.

Panther fans need Ryan Poles to start drafting like Scott Fitterer and find some more players who don't live up to their potential for this to become an easier pill to swallow. 

But again, I was never against "tanking" to begin with. We have shot ourselves in the foot a few years in a row with getting a win to end the season and missing out on guys like Justin Herbert by 1 draft slot after we were the team that scouted him more than anyone. 

 

[NAS]

33 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Tanking still would have gotten us Bryce Young.  The only difference is the draft capital we gave up to move up.

Maybe, but probably not. Let’s say we had the second, third pick, or fourth pick, you daft the next best available QB. At least you don’t have the stigma and the pressure of giving up the farm. And if he busts you can always try again next year 

Edited October 15, 2023 by NAS

[PghPanther]

I'll say it again...........0-17????

Tanks for nothing Panthers

[Wanderlai]

The tank should have started after Cam/Luke officially done. Trying to patchwork cast off QBs and terrible trades has set the franchise back a decade. There are no signs they know what they are doing. 

[CarolinaRideorDie]

Doesn't matter if you tank and accumulate draft picks if your GM can't draft or hit on any picks. You'll still be picking top 10 for decades like the Browns did in early 2000s. 

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, Khyber53 said:

I don't think we're tanking. I don't think they really know what they are doing.

It's a stool with three uneven legs that the team is sitting on and there is no way that it will level out and make sense until some major rethinking of the power structure is done.

 

Oh we aren't tanking. This is us set up to be in the playoffs. That's why it is so concerning.

I don't think we will be sellers, either. I suspect we will be buyers to try and right this ship. I don’t advocate for owner meddling but Fitterer should have the keys taken from him. No trades without approval.

[Waldo]

I think there are 2 types of tanking. Activity trying to lose games in games is just not a viable option in a competitive sport with so few games. Losing and then trading players for draft capital while losing more is absolutely a viable strategy. You actually need people that can evaluate talent for those picks but it's a great way to start a rebuild.

There isn't much to trade away or build around here now and there absolutely isn't any talent evaluators worth wasting hope on either.

[Varking]

28 minutes ago, CarolinaRideorDie said:

Doesn't matter if you tank and accumulate draft picks if your GM can't draft or hit on any picks. You'll still be picking top 10 for decades like the Browns did in early 2000s. 

This is definitely a thing to consider here. 

[SCMunnerlyn1]

7 hours ago, NAS said:

Look at the Broncos. 5 games in, they know they have to rebuild. They’re releasing and trading away assets in order to get the highest picks and best new players possible 

Even Vikings are doing the same knowing they need to move on from Cousins and start over.

Only dumb Tepper thinks he can have his cake and eat it too. Never embraced the strategy to go through one terrible season instead of 6 or 7.  Never hit the reset properly, and what do we have to show for it?

So many on this forum pooed on those of us who wanted to lose last year so we could get the best pick possible without trading away our future. Where are you now?

I'm here wondering why we didn't retain the coach that created chicken salad out of chicken poo. 

 

But whatever it's not up to us. 

[jb2288]

I feel like tanking is just way too situational. It is way too hard to tell your team we are going to take the entire season to get the #1 pick. However, you have to analyze your situation and do the right (hard thing) sometimes. For example, the Jets had the #1 pick in the 2021 draft Locked up then won a meaningless game in week 16 which netted them Zach Wilson instead of the best QB prospect to come out since Luck. Absolutely terrible management, should have done whatever to not win that game. They probably win the Super Bowl this year with Trevor Lawrence. 

Believe we did something similar in 2019 which ended up potentially costing us Herbert. D. Brown is great, but we could be a playoff fringe team every single year with Super Bowl aspirations with Herbert. 

Bringing in Rhule and Teddy was the worst decision this franchise ever made. We should have brought in a 1 year rental coach after Ron and just worked with the current roster, with the intention to hire our long term coach after a 1 year rebuild. We would be in year 4 with Burrow, Tua, or Herbert right now. 

Edited October 15, 2023 by jb2288

[Hoenheim]

1 hour ago, 45catfan said:

Tanking still would have gotten us Bryce Young.  The only difference is the draft capital we gave up to move up.

Not necessarily.  Assuming you mean we kept rhule he won 5 games his first 2 years and won 1 game before he was fired. I think they would've still won 4 or 5 games and we wouldn't have drafted Bryce at that position unless they still decided to trade up, or the Bryce just fell to them. 

[Cdparr7]

4 hours ago, BrisbanePanther said:

Yes, how many who pooed the tankers are also angry with what was given up in the trade to go to #1?

Yes, but many of the anti-tankers wanted Wilks. Which means there is a good chance we don’t move up to 1. 
 

There is also a good chance we are over .500 right now too.

[GOAT]

[WhoKnows]

2 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

If we are being honest we should have traded cmc Moore to the packers and of course burns to la.  Knowing what we know right now no reasonable fan could argue against this.   

Exactly, we'll do some half assed effort again like Chinn, TMJ and Donte for 7th rounders. It would have been nice to get 3 firsts and a second for Burns and DJ instead of throwing in DJ so we lose a 2nd instead of a first. If we would have gone hog wild we might have avoided giving up the 2024 first.