Does Bryce really require any more that other QBs for success?

[OldhamA]

22 minutes ago, Shocker said:

No…according to this board every player must be all pro or they are garbage and a brand new coaching staff needs to win the Super Bowl.  Otherwise, this is worthless trash

Oh, and we should trade any good players we have for picks cuz we will pick Hall of Famers.

We won 7 games last year - we might not win 1 this year.

It's really not that hard.

[Shocker]

Just now, OldhamA said:

We won 7 games last year - we might not win 1 this year.

It's really not that hard.

Not following…this team is last years team.  Right?  Is that the logic here stud bolt?

[Knaakedup]

57 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

I hear Cam brought up a lot for comparison which obviously makes sense as a Panthers’ #1 pick who immediately looked the part. But what doesn’t make sense to me is that the whole time Cam was doing Cam things and putting the team on his back (even during his MVP season), all of us were BEGGING the FO to get him a supporting cast. That’s the key detail that seems to be missing in all these comparisons. It was never “oh he’s a #1 overall QB, he’s supposed to elevate the team around him, we don’t need to give him a good supporting. He’s just doing what he’s supposed to he doing”. He’d put the team on his back and we’d all be in awe like “Holy poo look at how incredible this guy is with this awful team around him”. To this day, we still talk about how the Panthers failed Cam.

But for some reason with Bryce, our *expectation* now is exactly what we criticized the Panthers for doing with Cam. “Oh he’s a #1 overall pick, he doesn’t need good pieces around him, he should elevate everyone else”.

Look, I agree mostly with everything you said. The reason I mentioned Cam was bc he was the outlier to your hypothesis here. We failed that man so bad, and I still get upset thinking of all the old guys that rode his tailcoat (looking at you, Ron) while putting him in no position to succeed. Yet… he did anyway. 
 

Yes, we have to assemble a better team around Bryce from top to bottom to see what we got. But, my comparison there is just that even with poo roster, all the other guys had moments that changed the game and made things exciting. 

[MasterAwesome]

1 hour ago, Knaakedup said:

Look, I agree mostly with everything you said. The reason I mentioned Cam was bc he was the outlier to your hypothesis here. We failed that man so bad, and I still get upset thinking of all the old guys that rode his tailcoat (looking at you, Ron) while putting him in no position to succeed. Yet… he did anyway. 
 

Yes, we have to assemble a better team around Bryce from top to bottom to see what we got. But, my comparison there is just that even with poo roster, all the other guys had moments that changed the game and made things exciting. 

Sorry I wasn’t trying to direct anything at you specifically. I kinda used your post as a launching pad to just speak broadly because I see Cam brought up a lot in regard to expectations of Bryce. You seem like a reasonable dude.

[Cdparr7]

I really do believe he has the processing ability and I think he’s smart when it comes to the playbook. But it’s like trying to have a 6’8” RB or a 175lb Edge. It’s just not going to work. 
 

I said this in another thread but..

1) Reich runs him heavy out of the shotgun for 2 reasons. A) So he isn’t wasting processing time dropping back and B) he needs more time to process because he has to make reads between openings in the pocket. 

2) He can’t run a traditional pro style offense or much under center. (See bullet point 1)

3) His arm strength scares me. Really struggles getting the zip if he can’t go through his full technique. But I do give him credit he has the ability to see things open up when he gets out of the pocket, these aren’t really great throws they are just good reads as things are breaking down.

4) He’s slow. He moves Brady like. Yeah, he had the big scramble against NO when they were playing 20 yards off the ball but watching him try to get out of a mess is embarrassing. He looks like a deer stuck in quicksand and in 3 different games has had the ball come flying out of his hands when he was touched.

5) His frame still concerns me. There have been a few plays where I thought he was crushed. I still think this could become an issue eventually. 
 

Overall, I think he has the mental ability but not the physical ability and size. Best case scenario if they stick with him they need to build an offense that he can be his best in. Need to rebuild the OL to quick agile guys that are built for zone blocking and have a strong run game, utilize the screen game strategically and not ever play, and have some big possession WRs he can trust to go get it when they have to. Problem is we built this team for the opposite, we built an OL for a Verical Power Run offense centered around the run and PA pass.

[Shocker]

 

[GoobyPls]

It way to early in the season to answer this question, what does seem evident is the coaches terrible game plan has Bryce struggling more than most estimated.

[emhoward]

Great job OP

[BrisbanePanther]

3 hours ago, emhoward said:

Great job OP

Much appreciated!

[PantherBoy95]

10 hours ago, Knaakedup said:

Do you remember the supporting cast when Cam dragged this team to the SB?

This may have been mentioned already; but Cam had 2 good RBs, a great TE, and some very average but overperforming WR's. On top of that, we had one of the if not THE best Defenses in the league...idk that I'd really compare the two.

[Waldo]

Yeah success is not what people are talking about with Bryce, it's talent. Not stuff that can be coached up but just raw talent. It's not 'we lost because of Bryce' but 'Bryce looks horrible and limited.'

He looks like the Little of QBs. Either way he is going to have to make something happen regardless of his limitations. Think whatever you want but if you can't understand why people are tearing into the pick or his ability in his play at this point then maybe the problem is you? All the offseason fluff is gone by now and his school games no longer matter. He has NFL tape and it is not good, him not the team. Either way he was the first picked QB and looks a lot worse than the other 2. It's all there really is to talk about given the situation so I have no idea how anyone thinks any of this is going to change unless he figures out how to overcome his own limitations.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Waldo

[UNCrules2187]

Honestly I don't think Bryce has looked all that bad. As others have mentioned, truth is most rookie QBs are going to poo teams and struggle their first season - there's always exceptions (what Stroud is doing is awesome), but nothing looks out of the ordinary here. I think we were all fooled by the FO and staff not setting correct expectations coming into the season and Wilks going 4-2 with a power run heavy and defensive gameplan, but the truth is that roster turned over by half and the new scheme doesn't suit our OL's strengths. Bryce hasn't elevated the team, yes, but he's also a rookie who's played 4 career games and I'm much more upset at the FO and staff for how the roster was constructed and the scheming that's been put in place.

[Navy_football]

12 hours ago, beo said:

Our fanbase has unrealistically low expectations for a QBs supporting cast in part due to how fuging pathetically we built around Cam. I can't think of a legit franchise QB that got a shittier hand than Cam did as far as offensive supporting casts go in recent memory. Folks do not realize just how galactically far behind we were the rest of the league when Cam was here, remember how many posters were saying our WR core was "underrated" going into the year? lol. It's held over from the Cam era IMO, the fanbase simply has no standards for supporting skill position talent and expects the QB to carry the team on his back because Cam did it. To truly "elevate" a team as a QB, you have to be flat out ELITE. And even then you won't win much come playoff time in the vast majority of cases if the surrounding team is poo. Expecting a rookie in his 5th game to be such a player is a really unfair baseline if you ask me. 

So true! Rivera had the friggin chosen one at QB and decided to focus on defense instead. If he would have spent the resources to build around Cam rather than trying to improve his defense... 

That's why I wanted an offensive minded HC over a defensive one. Unfortunately Reich seems to be some mutt hybrid that can't/won't get out of his own way. 

[LinvilleGorge]

2 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

So true! Rivera had the friggin chosen one at QB and decided to focus on defense instead. If he would have spent the resources to build around Cam rather than trying to improve his defense... 

That's why I wanted an offensive minded HC over a defensive one. Unfortunately Reich seems to be some mutt hybrid that can't/won't get out of his own way. 

There's another alternate universe where we actually pair Cam Newton with an offensive minded head coach.