Interesting conversation this week...

[panthers55]

thats what i was thinking.

people have this mindset that to be the best you have to act like you have a stick up your butt. that if you aren't acting like the consummate professional (hard core and full tilt in everything you do) then you must not care and you must not be putting enough effort into it.

some of the most talented people i know put the least effort into it. to say that they don't care about what they are doing and they don't look like they are putting forth the effort that others do is just flat out being small minded.

the most important thing for fox is the intangibles....especially when coming to the QB position. apparently he doesn't like laid back people and has a negative opinion of them. he's missing out and the team is suffering because of it.

he has in his head the exact image of what a football team and a football player should look like. he can't deviate from that. you have to learn to be flexible with your paradigms if you are never going to rise to the top.

Probably comes from coaching for 20 years and seeing what happens over time. Maybe comes from being right alot more than he is wrong. Funny you should talk about flexible paradigms. Don't see you using any in your frequent criticisms of Fox or Jake. And worse you have no resume to justify your attitude or ideas.

[mush]

If you've met Brett Basanez and Matt Moore on interview alone, you'd want Basanez as your QB over Moore. And I've interviewed both. But at the end of the day, Moore gets more done on the field than Basanez could. You just couldn't quit on Basnanez's drive and fervor for the game and his commitment.

[rayzor]

Probably comes from coaching for 20 years and seeing what happens over time. Maybe comes from being right alot more than he is wrong. Funny you should talk about flexible paradigms. Don't see you using any in your frequent criticisms of Fox or Jake. And worse you have no resume to justify your attitude or ideas.

not that you know of.

[Raleighcat83]

rutgers produced smith. not cali... he may be from there, but his talent flourished when he went to rutgers. he may say he learned a lot from his high school coach, but his real talent came from playing in an offense opposite of chad ochocinco.

You might want to double check this.

[panthers55]

not that you know of.

Nor anyone else knows of including you.

[panthers55]

If you've met Brett Basanez and Matt Moore on interview alone, you'd want Basanez as your QB over Moore. And I've interviewed both. But at the end of the day, Moore gets more done on the field than Basanez could. You just couldn't quit on Basnanez's drive and fervor for the game and his commitment.

And if Moore could marshal some of that, how much better could he be?

[mush]

to a degree, truth be told that stuff, attitude, and skills can be taught.

attitude and what you say makes a lot of difference. I've spent time around the team a lot, not in a few years, but if you could interview players without ever seeing them play you'd understand why players of questionable skills still keep their jobs and while less well spoken players get cut.....

[SorthNarolina]

if that's true moore is reminding me more and more(pardon the pun) of tony romo.

*Doubts of commitment to football

*Undrafted

*Noticed by the cowboys

*So far played pretty well

Hopefully he doesn't eff up in the playoffs.

[CRA]

And 5 games in 2009 doesn't equate to a career or justify comparing him to guys who took their teams to the playoffs several times in their careers.

Your point??

sure it does.....when talking present day football and not career comparisons. What Vinny and Jake did early on means little at this point......

[grateflday]

Um, you guys really think Jon Fox is going to let Jake sit on the bench next year if he is getting paid 13 million? I think not. Moore should be re-signed, but you know we are going to go through this again in 7 months...........

If we end up going through this again in 7 months, and its anything like this past season - Jake AND Fox will get booooed right out of that stadium. It would be defening because those of us who show up and stay there will not just sit there and watch Jake throw, fumble & lose games all by himself again all season. I really dont think it would come to that because unlike this season in 2010 Jake WILL have a super short leash. There is no way he cant.

[Gman was right]

Problem with this logic is that I have no problem with Moore starting and have said so. I have no problem with Jake being the backup and if we didn't owe him 13 million, I would be fine if we let him go. For all you pinheads who can't read English, let me be clear. I am a Panthers fan not a fan of a player. I was here before Jake and will be after.

As for the past here are the numbers.

In 2003- Smitty only started 11 games and accounted for 7 Tds. He also averaged only 10 yards a punt return and 1 TD. Not even as much as we gave up that year which was 11.5 per return. And he only returned 11 kickoffs-O Tds, the majority went to He Hate Me (44 and I TD).

As for the defense it wasn't even first in the division, that went to Tampa. We were top five in 1 category-penalties. It was top 10 but not marvelous by any means and wasn't why we went to the Superbowl. In the post season we were in the middle ranking 5th out of 12 teams on offense and defense. Peppers wasn't that big a factor with only 44 tackles and 7 sacks. Rucker had a much better year with 58 tackles and 12 sacks.

First of all a team wins not a player or even three. Players elevate their game and play better than in the regular season. Like Jake who went from a passer rating of 80 during the year to 106 during the playoffs. And we had a number of second half combacks and last second victories like we did against St Louis to get to the SB.

Look like not only are you wrong about my feelings about Jake but wrong about alot of things. here is quiz for you. What year did the defense under Trgo put up their best defensive numbers? And no it wasn't 2003. Which defense overall was ranked higher? 2003 or 2009? Actually they were ranked the same-8th.

As for G man- I don't have time for trolls.

You dont have time because Gman is right.

[mush]

I will only post this stuff in a thread buried this deep because I wouldn't want too many people to see it, but as a nugget for people that read this deep.....

There are players who make the team and keep jobs because they are well spoken:

Chris Draft

Karl Hankton

Brad Hoover

Ricky Proehl

Nick Goings

Jake Delhomme

Na'il Diggs

you can have average skills, but if you are more articulate than the competition you have an edge, no matter what anybody says.

Then there are plenty of guys who are not well spoken and can only depend on their skills to keep them on the team. Maybe on another night I would post them....

You all are naive if you think other teams have different standards.

[raleigh-panther]

And watch it evolve as the offseason continues or at least I hope it does. I hoe that Rip work s with him and helps him develop more of a killer instinct. After all if your leader lacks one, how will it develop?

:rofl:

...because Rip worked just such magic with Delhomme.

...and Killer instinct, you mean, gosh, like our head coach. Our Head coach sure has that ole killer instinct down, doesn't he.

John Fox, the King of winning meaningless games in December.

[Woodie]

A few points:

1) This actually jives with the impression I got from Matt during an off-season interview...actually it was during the conditioning program. He was asked about what he did during his time off, and he talked about hanging out and taking some trips and so forth. He was then asked about how things were going with the conditioning program, and he said it's great because he can get there early, lift some weights, run a little, then leave by ten and have the rest of the day to himself.

At no point did he mention anything about working on his game, or improving his technique, watching film, working with any other QB's (current or retired), nothing. He talked like a kid that was off from school for the summer, and was just enjoying himself, and didn't want to think about football until he had to. That doesn't mean he didn't do anything, but usually when a guy works hard in the off-season, he usually wants to talk about it to some degree. So it was a bit of a red flag for me, and made me question if he has the dedication or desire to actually become the best QB he can be.

2) Most people seem to be confusing being laid back, and not a football player. Being a football player refers to preparation, work ethic, determination, dedication, hunger, and a love of the game, none of which are related to being laid back. They are two completely different issues.

3) A few people have stated that Zod said it was a personality conflict and not about Moore not taking things seriously or preparing himself properly. But that is not accurate. Zod indicated that the person he talked to said that Fox's problem with Moore is that he "is not a football player," which is another way of saying that the player is not driven, focused, or diligent. It was Zod that interpreted it as a personality conflict.

4) 55's been talking about Moore not being big on practice. I know a lot of people hold Yas in a bit of disdain, but when Jake was struggling so bad and people would ask in his chat why Moore wasn't starting, he said that in practice he just doesn't look very good. It might mean nothing, but it plays into what 55 was saying, that Matt simply did not do enough in practice to give any indication he should be the starter (other than by just not being Jake).

Overall, I think Matt definitely has many of the attributes and skills to become a very good starting QB. I just hope he dedicates this off-season to improving himself and getting into the mindset of being a starting quarterback in the NFL.