Interesting conversation this week...

[SMACKDAB]

And the same guys who criticize the coach for mediocre poor effort and desire should be demanding it from the quarterback as well. Instead of excusing one and demanding it from the other. Fox can only be as good as the players around him. It should be just as incumbent on Moore to do everything he can as it is Fox to expect it.

I wasn't excusing one for the sake of the other.

Understandable, and I agree to a certain extent. He is the HEAD COACH.

But........ Fox needs to realize he has some flaws with his own hardheaded ways as well. The old saying is.... if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Not the case here concerning Fox's coaching philosophy. Just sayin........

Fox would have been a helluva Sea Captain, because he sure as hell would have been the last man to go down with the ship he sat on fire his own damn self.

[raleigh-panther]

It is funny how people look for any justification rather than what has been said and verified. It is not a personality conflict is it a player who doesn't care enough to be the best..

Not meaning to offend you, but, just how do you know what was said and verified.

It seems to me, the only two people who know what was said between Fox and Moore are Fox and Moore and to the best I can also tell, they aren't talking.

Everyone, including you, and including me, is conjecture based on hearsay and nothing else and conjecture and hearsay is what makes boards like this interesting and a place to vent, but, nothing else.

I don't really care who the QB is next year. I don't care whether it is Jake or Moore. All I care about is the QB next year is competent and can perform under pressure and gives the other 51 players some semblance of a chance to win. Turning the ball over and over again, takes that chance away, period.

[panthers55]

I wasn't excusing one for the sake of the other.

Understandable, and I agree to a certain extent. He is the HEAD COACH.

But........ Fox needs to realize he has some flaws with his own hardheaded ways as well. The old saying is.... if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Not the case here concerning Fox's coaching philosophy. Just sayin........

Fox would have been a helluva Sea Captain, because he sure as hell would have been the last man to go down with the ship he sat on fire his own damn self.

Fox surely has his issues and has made plenty of mistakes. Hopefully he is learning and getting better given this is his first head coaching rodeo. If he doesn't improve he will likely be replaced. Problem will be that like a lot of guys, they only really do a hard examination once they fail and use that knowledge to be better the second time around. Hopefully he figures it out while he is here but he won't be the first guy to need a wakeup call before he sees the light.

[Gman was right]

It is funny how people look for any justification rather than what has been said and verified. It is not a personality conflict is it a player who doesn't care enough to be the best. Funny how we are fine with Moore being mediocre in his planning and preparation and demand more from Fox. Sooner or later when the opposition gets more film on Moore it will be like Ryan, or Flacco and other guys who struggle in their sophomore season. They need to crank up every part of that game including preparation and film study.

And this isn't about Jake versus Matt, this is between having a great season or not. Given Fox's concern about Moore it is likely we will pick up a quarterback in the draft and in free agency. Moore will be in a four way battle not just with Jake. It is possible neither Jake or Moore start next year.

Show me where this was said and verified. And I dont want to hear "well thats what I heard". Show me proof that the coach said Matt Moore was too lazy and didnt care enough. Sounds like you're throwing something up on the wall and just hoping it sticks.

You of all people should be thanking Matt Moore instead of looking for reasons to hate him. Afterall, he was soley responsible for saving your master's job

[ladypanther]

Fox surely has his issues and has made plenty of mistakes. Hopefully he is learning and getting better given this is his first head coaching rodeo. If he doesn't improve he will likely be replaced. Problem will be that like a lot of guys, they only really do a hard examination once they fail and use that knowledge to be better the second time around. Hopefully he figures it out while he is here but he won't be the first guy to need a wakeup call before he sees the light.

LOL...you make it sound as if he is a rookie coach. Don't see much evidence he learns from his mistakes.

[panthers55]

Not meaning to offend you, but, just how do you know what was said and verified.

It seems to me, the only two people who know what was said between Fox and Moore are Fox and Moore and to the best I can also tell, they aren't talking.

Everyone, including you, and including me, is conjecture based on hearsay and nothing else and conjecture and hearsay is what makes boards like this interesting and a place to vent, but, nothing else.

I don't really care who the QB is next year. I don't care whether it is Jake or Moore. All I care about is the QB next year is competent and can perform under pressure and gives the other 51 players some semblance of a chance to win. Turning the ball over and over again, takes that chance away, period.

It isn't heresay it is a constant theme discussed routinely between people in the know. Terms like a not being a football guy are pretty telling and specific to knowledgeable football people. It is clear what people are talking about. You will never hear someone come out and say it directly as it serves no purpose but you don't have to be hit over the head to read between the lines. Has anyone come out and directly said that Jarrett doesn't play because of his poor attitude and lack of effort? It is acknowledged to be pretty true. And everything that has happened with him not starting earlier point much more clearly to something that Moore isn't doing than it does to a personality conflict.

Truth is you will can believe what you want but I for one am convinced that where there is smoke there is fire. But I agree with you in the end, I don't care who is back there as long as we win. I hope Moore does it all

and gets on the stick like Williams. But if you want to stick your head in the sand and ignore what to many is obvious, that is fine. Doesn't really matter.

[panthers55]

Show me where this was said and verified. And I dont want to hear "well thats what I heard". Show me proof that the coach said Matt Moore was too lazy and didnt care enough. Sounds like you're throwing something up on the wall and just hoping it sticks.

You of all people should be thanking Matt Moore instead of looking for reasons to hate him. Afterall, he was soley responsible for saving your master's job

Read my post to Raleigh Cat- no one will do come out and say things directly because that is nothings are done with the Panthers. if they didn't do it with Jarrett they won't do it with Moore. Fox and his people don't throw folks under the bus and handle things internally. It doesn't make it less true. Keep your head under the troll bridge, it doesn't matter. And it doesn't change the fact that he has issues and you can believe what you want.

[Gman was right]

So you admit no one has actually said Matt Moore was lazy and didnt prepare well? Thats what I thought. It was a personality conflict not a matter of preparation.

And for the record we have heard Jarrett get criticized publicly. Remember this?

"Then receivers coach Richard Williamson referred to him as "Tinkerbell," challenging him to "knock those guys around, get off the line of scrimmage."

Or Smith telling him he needs to watch more film?

You've never heard the coaching staff or the players criticize for matt Moore for anything. Probably because he does nothing but win.

[panthers55]

LOL...you make it sound as if he is a rookie coach. Don;t see much evidence he learns from his mistakes.

And he wouldn't be the first guy who didn't. Sometime failure forces you to reevaluate much more than success. Having success like going to the Superbowl in your second season can be as bad as it is good. You start believing the hype and fail to self evaluate. I don't know whether he is learning and changing. Much of that we won't see. For my money i think one of his biggest issues is hiring coordinators and not letting them do their job. If that continues as I have heard that it did in the past, I won't be sad to see him go.

[panthers55]

So you admit no one has actually said Matt Moore was lazy and didnt prepare well? Thats what I thought. It was a personality conflict not a matter of preparation.

And for the record we have heard Jarrett get criticized publicly. Remember this?

"Then receivers coach Richard Williamson referred to him as "Tinkerbell," challenging him to "knock those guys around, get off the line of scrimmage."

Or Smith telling him he needs to watch more film?

You've never heard the coaching staff or the players criticize for matt Moore for anything. Probably because he does nothing but win.

Again no one came out directly and said Jarrett was lazy or didn't prepare adequately. All we heard were one liners and veiled comments from frustrated players when people keep asking why he wasn't getting playing time. Bottom line is that you will believe what you want.

Personality conflict? A pile of crap. Jenkins was renowned to have frequent personality conflicts with others and he played from day one. Smitty is known to be hard to get along with and he plays irregardless.

Keep you head under the troll bridge as you want. You are not alone.

[Gman was right]

You havent heard one bit of criticism one liner or not regarding matt Moore. All you have heard is players endorsing him as the starter next year and how much better the passing game got when he was in the lineup. Lots of people in the organization have expressed their dissapointment in Jarret in some sort of fashion. Silly comparison even for you. But keep reaching anyway trying to find some sort of reason to hate matt moore. Its just going to kill you when he's starting on opening day.

[panthers55]

You havent heard one bit of criticism one liner or not regarding matt Moore. All you have heard is players endorsing him as the starter next year and how much better the passing game got when he was in the lineup. Lots of people in the organization have expressed their dissapointment in Jarret in some sort of fashion. Silly comparison even for you. But keep reaching anyway trying to find some sort of reason to hate matt moore. Its just going to kill you when he's starting on opening day.

Go back and read this thread and get back with me.

And you are obviously too ignorant to read basic English, so let me be specific. I am fine with Moore starting whether he changes his attitude or not. I would like him to work harder in the offseason and prepare better so he is more successful. He will or he won't regardless of what I think. But for the Panthers to reach the playoffs we need every player to do their very best and give 100%. I hope Moore does and is very successful. I rooted for Moore every game he played and attended 3 of them. I am Panther's fan first and foremost.

[csx]

Interesting, but someone in the organization must have thought enough of him to keep him on the roster for 3 years?

I also find it ironic that Fox is from the Parcells coaching tree and Parcells is one of the most intense coaches in the history of the NFL and Moore was a guy Parcells snatched up and hoped to clear through the waiver wire when we snatched him up.

Perhaps Fox was operating on the "if Parcells likes him then I like him" principle? It's funny that Romo also gets the same heat for seeming too laid back. Both are undrafted FA's brought in by Parcells.

I agree with others on the thought that this laid back personality is actually an asset on the field.

Moore was brought in to Dallas after Parcells was gone.

[venom]

had an interesting conversation this week within someone within the organization. We didn't meet up to talk Panthers in particular, but I couldn't help but ask a few questions.

When I asked about Matt Moore, he had another perspective I had not heard much. Fox preferred Delhomme, McCown, and even Cantwell to Moore, but not because of anything on the field. Mainly, it was a personality thing. Fox described Moore as being"not a football player". It comes down to nothing on the field, but simply a personality conflict.

Moore is a pretty laid back guy. Tends not to take things overly serious, maybe not even football as much as the next guy. This clashes with the type of player Fox likes to use. But it may also explain how Matt is able to come into big games with all that pressure and perform the way he did.

Anyways, just throwing that out there.

I wonder if fox originally wasnt fond of williams' work ethic over foster's either haha