Interesting conversation this week...

[top dawg]

Fox might have an eye for talent, he just doesn't give up the ghost soon enough, and doesn't know how to best utilize the talent that he has been given.

[megadeth078]

Fox said goodbye to Foster. He could do it again....

[top dawg]

I'll believe it when it happens. People are talking about Moore because they are thinking with their hearts. Fox and Jake go a long way, as far as football goes, so history tells us that Jake will be under center come September. Many in the Huddle are just too blind to see it coming. Why won't they name Moore the starter, now? Why? If I had to bet, it's because he won't be.

[weyco2000]

Fox is still in the last year of his contract and Big Cat has the upper hand. I assume he see's what we see.

[Sandy Claws]

But it may also explain how Matt is able to come into big games with all that pressure and perform the way he did.

Matt never really came into games and performed at a high level. His efforts in relief were marginal at best. When he has got the starting nod, he has performed well. Is it possible that he hasn't been taking it seriously and he's not learning the play book and game plans as some have reported ? Wouldn't it be appropriate to slide him down the depth chart because of that? We could limit a game plan to only the sections of the book that he knows. Is that what we did? If that's what we're doing, how many games of tape will it take for other teams to realize that we are playing a limited offense making it easier to defend? Is this glass half empty or half full? Why is the roll eyes smilie green :rolleyes:but the wink blue;)? Why did the rolleyed change color when I clicked it? Screw the QB stuff. There's something big going on here now.

[Bob NC]

We could limit a game plan to only the sections of the book that he knows. Is that what we did? If that's what we're doing, how many games of tape will it take for other teams to realize that we are playing a limited offense making it easier to defend?

Is it a choice?

Do we limit Matt Moore to the plays he KNOWS, or, do we limit Delhomme to the plays he can EXECUTE?????

[Zod]

The last three games were the most balanced offensively we have seen in Carolina in several years.

I think its pretty obvious what was limiting the play calling.

[raleigh-panther]

Agree with Zod and Bob NC.

There have been reports after games from our opponents' safeties (Eagles for one) that either they could bait Delhomme to throw into coverage or they could easily read his eyes and know where he was throwing or both. I'd say the 18+ interceptions supports that. that all they had to do was key on Delhomme. I also saw several film breakdown's of Delhomme on Playbook that show he can no longer physically, mechanically hit the window required in the NFL to consistently complete passes.

I tend to agree that Fox may very well start Delhomme, and if he does, there is nothing anyone can do about it, other than empty seats and booing.

As for me, like many others financially suppoting the team, I'll opt for selling my two seats to someone else if I can. I will not spend Sunday driving for 6 hrs and sitting for 3.5 hrs, paying that kinda of money to watch a washed up QB and a his enabler.

Fox, what a joke, I read that he called Bobby April AFTER April had signed with the Eagles. I guess he thought the best special teams coach in the business would just be sitting around waiting for his call.

[panthers55]

Funny how people keep making making excuses for Moore's poor effort and preparation outside of the game. It isn't hard or complicated. Anyone who gets good results with little or no effort will do better with more work or effort. This thread seems to be about having to decide which is better when it doesn't have to be that way at all. If Moore has the talent and ability to improvise and come into the game whether he knows the playbook or not, that is great. But it hardly justifies him continuing to act that way or continuing to wing it.

The bottom line is that he will never be as good as he could be if he takes it more seriously. And for those who really believe he might be worse if he actually practiced diligently, and worked in the offseason, you are plainly out in left field. It surely doesn't have to be either or but both. And as soon as Moore figures that out, we will all be better for it. Until then he will likely be a Romo or other guy who is given the same moniker, good at times maybe even great sometimes, but prone to suffer lapses and difficulties when he finds that talent alone won't always get it done.

Taking an example from studying since it has been brought up. Sure there are guys who can make a 90 without studying much or doing much work, but don't suggest that the same person wouldn't be better if they studied. Then add the notion that the teacher changes the test format or makes it harder. Surely the students who are best prepared and intelligent and who can BS the best will make the best grade.

Regarding the business model brought up. Surely salespeople who form the best relationships can do well whether they are prepared or not. But the best salepeople are both personable, driven and are the best prepared.

Sure if we have to settle for only one or the other, then this conversation should be relavent but it surely doesn't have to be. If Moore wants to do it all and be the starter then he needs to do all he can in every area. If he thinks he can skate by and do as little as possible then I surely hope that we continue to look for someone who is the total package and does it all whether that is through free agency or the draft. Those who decry mediocrity and settling when criticizing Fox are the same one supporting Moore and making excuses for his poor preparation because he has played well in 8 games. Seems hypocritical to me. If Fox should demand and expect the best, his players should do everything to support that effort. And if Moore doesn't respond, we need to find some one who will. The best leader in the world can't inspire someone who doesn't want to be the best. It takes a good coach and players who want to be the best. I hope Moore is in that camp. Right now there seems to be enough questions that it doesn't make me assured he is the answer. For everyone's sake I hope he is.

[SMACKDAB]

How dare Fox , criticize any player about not being prepared, or working harder to get better, when he is the epitome of not being prepared when the game is on the line.

One prime example(that is most relevant about this topic)......Exactly what has he done to make the QB position an improvement each and every year when there are viable option, other than stick to his own hardheaded stubborn ways concerning QB's. Just like this org going after April way to late, when you know they knew Crossman's ass was gone.

Moore Saved Fox's ass this season whether Moore ever starts another game or not. Fox may have lucked up when they found Moore, but he has never truly tried to get us a QB due to his "train of thought", yet he criticizes others. Riggghhhhhhhttttt.

How has any game plan every changed after halftime? Where is Fox's step on the throat killer instinct at? If he prepared, and went all out like he is asking of his players, then I would say he has the right, but until he shows a change in his mentality, he has no right to criticize the lack of effort being put forth by others. Maybe Matt is just taking the Foxy approach.

If Fox want to criticize players about their drive and desire to win, he should look in the mirror and take some notes, and go to work himself IMHO.

But whoa...wait just a minute. That's comparing apples to oranges kinda stuff. This can't be a real question, or observation, that doesn't have a ton of excuses to to make it just in all the nuthuggers minds. Just can't.

:willy_nilly:

[Gman was right]

Its funny how some people translate a personality conflict into "poor preparation" because they are so afraid of change. Im sure if Matt Moore was so lazy he wouldnt have held a roster spot for 3 years. Yep, he prepares so poorly yet he has a 6-2 starting record with 5 of those wins by 10 pts or more and an excellent qb rating. Its a shame that some people just have a hard time letting go of the past especially when right now is such an exciting time to be a panther fan. Its just a fact:Matt Moore is superior Jake Delhomme is inferior and the HC was just too stupid to realize that. Or maybe he did realize it but stuck with the inferior QB out of fear of looking like dumbass for giving him so much money.

[SMACKDAB]

the HC was just too stupid to realize that. Or maybe he did realize it but stuck with the inferior QB out of fear of looking like dumbass for giving him so much money.

Although I think it is best Fox stay from an organizational/team aspect right now, as mad as he makes me, and as stubborn as he is, I have preached that all year.

There is no doubt in my mind that is why Fox stuck with Jake so long. He had his neck out there so far for they guy, there was no backing up at that point.

[panthers55]

Its funny how some people translate a personality conflict into "poor preparation" because they are so afraid of change. Im sure if Matt Moore was so lazy he wouldnt have held a roster spot for 3 years. Yep, he prepares so poorly yet he has a 6-2 starting record with 5 of those wins by 10 pts or more and an excellent qb rating. Its a shame that some people just have a hard time letting go of the past especially when right now is such an exciting time to be a panther fan. Its just a fact:Matt Moore is superior Jake Delhomme is inferior and the HC was just too stupid to realize that. Or maybe he did realize it but stuck with the inferior QB out of fear of looking like dumbass for giving him so much money.

It is funny how people look for any justification rather than what has been said and verified. It is not a personality conflict is it a player who doesn't care enough to be the best. Funny how we are fine with Moore being mediocre in his planning and preparation and demand more from Fox. Sooner or later when the opposition gets more film on Moore it will be like Ryan, or Flacco and other guys who struggle in their sophomore season. They need to crank up every part of that game including preparation and film study.

And this isn't about Jake versus Matt, this is between having a great season or not. Given Fox's concern about Moore it is likely we will pick up a quarterback in the draft and in free agency. Moore will be in a four way battle not just with Jake. It is possible neither Jake or Moore start next year.

[panthers55]

How dare Fox , criticize any player about not being prepared, or working harder to get better, when he is the epitome of not being prepared when the game is on the line.

One prime example(that is most relevant about this topic)......Exactly what has he done to make the QB position an improvement each and every year when there are viable option, other than stick to his own hardheaded stubborn ways concerning QB's. Just like this org going after April way to late, when you know they knew Crossman's ass was gone.

Moore Saved Fox's ass this season whether Moore ever starts another game or not. Fox may have lucked up when they found Moore, but he has never truly tried to get us a QB due to his "train of thought", yet he criticizes others. Riggghhhhhhhttttt.

How has any game plan every changed after game time? Where is Fox's step on the throat killer instinct at? If he prepared, and went all out like he is asking of his players, then I would say he has the right, but until he shows a change in his mentality, he has no right to criticize the lack of effort being put forth by others. Maybe Matt is just taking the Foxy approach.

If Fox want to criticize players about their drive and desire to win, he should look in the mirror and take some notes, and go to work himself IMHO.

But whoa...wait just a minute. That's comparing apples to oranges kinda stuff. This can't be a real question, or observation, that doesn't have a ton of excuses to to make it just in all the nuthuggers minds. Just can't.

:willy_nilly:

And the same guys who criticize the coach for mediocre poor effort and desire should be demanding it from the quarterback as well. Instead of excusing one and demanding it from the other. Fox can only be as good as the players around him. It should be just as incumbent on Moore to do everything he can as it is Fox to expect it.