Bryce Didn't Ask For This

[frankw]

There's no need for anyone to make things very personal beyond his abilities as a player and his performance on the field. I'll agree with that. But the kid does not need anyone throwing him a pity party. That's the last thing he needs. It might not be fair in the eyes of some but this has always been the weight of being a #1 pick. If anyone has moral concerns about this well you probably shouldn't be watching football anyways considering some of the fuged up players that have been allowed to remain in the league.

Anyways the #2 pick has had the same weight put upon him and he was going to what was widely regarded as the worse situation to a franchise that's done nothing and has very little pieces to work with currently. He seems to be responding with a full package combination of leadership grit and determination that you would expect from someone picked there. We should and will expect the same from our #1 overall pick.

Edited October 9, 2023 by frankw

[Brooklyn 3.0]

Haven't read thread yet but ... he asked to be in the NFL. This is where grown men play. This ain't Bama. Every rookie gets a wake up call. Some answer it. Some don't.

[MasterAwesome]

6 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

3 of his first 4 games in the league he went over 300. 6/2 TD/INT ratio. He went over 400 yards in his 7th game. If that’s pedestrian then what do we call what Bryce is doing?

Maybe "pedestrian" was harsh? But he looked like probably a middle-of-the-road starting QB.  Not much better than an Andy Dalton his first few years in the league who is the QB he replaced up there.  He didn't look like a #1 overall pick who immediately came in and elevated the team around him is all I'm saying, until he got his elite WR corps.  That seems to be the standard we've placed on Bryce.  Yes Bryce has clearly looked worse than Burrow his rookie year but this is specifically an argument about the expectations of #1 overall QB elevating an awful team around him.

[MasterAwesome]

16 minutes ago, Varking said:

Burrows rookie year had 3.2 TD % and 1.2 INT % while completing 65% of his passes while his team scored 99 points in 4 games. They had losses of 3 points, 5 points , a tie game and an 8 point win. 
 

Bryce has passing yard totals of 146, 153, 204, 247 in his first four games. 
 

Joe went over 300 yards 3 times in his first four starts. Putting the team on his back to keep them in games. Bryce hasn’t eclipsed 250 once. Not even comparable starts to their careers really. 

 

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree that a QB who went 2-7-1 "put the team on his back".  I don't think you draft a QB 1st overall to simply look good while he's leading you to loss after loss.  If Burrow is this truly elite #1 overall pick who elevates everyone around him, then by the logic conveyed on these boards, Cincinnati wouldn't have spent the 5th overall pick in the next draft on a receiver for him.  Because #1 overall pick QBs shouldn't need elite pieces around him to excel, apparently.  My argument is that the expectation of a QB (even those taken #1 overall) shouldn't be to put a horrible team on his back.

Edited October 9, 2023 by MasterAwesome

[Varking]

2 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree that a QB who went 2-7-1 "put the team on his back".  I don't think you draft a QB 1st overall to simply look good while he's leading you to loss after loss.  If Burrow is this truly elite #1 overall pick who elevates everyone around him, then by the logic conveyed on these boards, Cincinnati wouldn't have spent the 5th overall pick in the next draft on a receiver for him.  Because #1 overall pick QBs shouldn't need elite pieces around him to excel, apparently.  My argument is that the expectation of a QB (even those taken #1 overall) shouldn't be to put a horrible team on his back.

But Burrow was excelling and folks could see it. That’s why they went WR for him. They clearly asked him what he preferred because he showed he could be the guy. I mean he was flashing in week 1. He was keeping them in games early. And again, just in the first four games alone he went 1-2-1. We would kill right now for a win and a tie. 
 

People will give first round QBs passes so long as you show something that flashes. Burrow was in that group. Tua was getting killed because he wasn’t flashing. Fields got killed online because he wasn’t flashing. 
 

If Bryce was out here playing like Burrow did weeks 1-4 we likely have a win or two under our belts. 
 

If Bryce was showing out we wouldn’t care about this being a losing season. 
 

Right now we are hanging our hats on his performance in the 4th quarter of a game where his struggles early lead directly to 14 points for the other team. 

[emhoward]

2 hours ago, Mage said:

I'm not a fan of the screens, but they probably feel it is necessary given the lack of speed on the perimeter.  

I'm not a fan of the play-calling either but I get the screen calls.

And the fact that we have no run game, so it's a replacement for that.

[Harbingers]

2 hours ago, Captroop said:

If anything is likely to "David Carr" Bryce, it's the amount of pressure that's put on him in terms of our expectations to succeed based on his performance alone.

Being the #1 overall pick already comes with with an enormous amount of pressure. Now imagine the weight Bryce must be feeling every day knowing:

• The Panthers made me their #1 overall selection
• The Panthers traded up to make me their #1 overall selection
• The Panthers traded next year's 1st round selection to make me their #1 overall selection
• The Panthers traded their best offensive weapon to make me their #1 overall selection
• Multiple people put their careers and livelihoods on the line, vouching for me that I was worth trading all that for
• An entire coaching and ownership regime is betting their future on me being the centerpiece of their offense and the star of the franchise
• The Panthers gave up so much they can only surround me with mediocre talent, and they count on ME to be the reason the team is successful
• The coaches are starting me over a more qualified veteran because everyone needs ME to prove THEY were right
• If I don't pan out, the investment the Panthers made in me will be what sets this franchise back a decade

And now imagine all of that going through your head and not only not being immediately successful, but being the center of attention of a team that looks like it may be historically bad.

Frankly, the amount of expectation that our FO, coaching and fanbase has piled on Bryce is unreal, unprecedented, and unfair. Because at the end of the day, all that we gave up for him, was our team's bad decision.

So if anything has the likelihood to "ruin" Bryce Young, it's the stress of knowing that because of the amount we gave up for him, which is not something he ever asked for us to do, and in spite of the weak team we surrounded him with, he doesn't get the benefit of a rookie learning curve. Every mistake is exponentially worse, because the amount we gave up for him can only be justifiable if he is great NFL QB.

I still don't know if Bryce has the physical tools to be a great QB in this league. But if Bryce mentally survives this season, I'll actually have a lot more hope for him in the future.

I don’t think he did… I think his people did though. 

[outlaw4]

That's the life of being a first round pick. Fair or not, the expectations are set sky high and nowadays, the success of a HC/GM is tied to that individual.

However, to say the team is giving Young an environment to succeed right now would be disingenuous. If there is potential with Bryce and it can survive through this, then he'll be just fine. 

[OldhamA]

4 hours ago, Proudiddy said:

He might not have asked for it, but if he didn't feel he was capable of living up to the expectations then he should've let them know and gracefully bowed out of the runnin for #1.  But he didn't.  So is he gonna return his salary?  No.  So it's hard to feel bad for the guy.

At the same time, the staff and FO believed in him and went all in on him, confident that he was worthy of the #1 overall pick and of being a franchise QB.

So in terms of whether to feel bad for him or not, or considering if expectations were unrealistic or too high - I'm sorry, brother, but this is the modern day NFL.  If we take a player at #1, we expect you to change the direction of our franchise for the better.  We expect you to set the tone and team culture.  For better or worse, that's what comes with being the #1 overall pick now, so it wasn't unfair or unrealistic.  And again, if he didn't feel he could live up to that, he should've let them know in the pre-draft process.

Bingo - he was a cocky little poo coming into the Draft (some would say confident).

He's been massively humbled in the last five months - it's clear that he's absolutely overawed by the speed and athleticism of NFL athletes 'cos he's hesitant to pull the trigger on anything that approaches an NFL throw. 

I think it's only going one way - I hope he banked his signing bonus. 

[Knaakedup]

2 hours ago, MasterAwesome said:

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree that a QB who went 2-7-1 "put the team on his back".  I don't think you draft a QB 1st overall to simply look good while he's leading you to loss after loss.  If Burrow is this truly elite #1 overall pick who elevates everyone around him, then by the logic conveyed on these boards, Cincinnati wouldn't have spent the 5th overall pick in the next draft on a receiver for him.  Because #1 overall pick QBs shouldn't need elite pieces around him to excel, apparently.  My argument is that the expectation of a QB (even those taken #1 overall) shouldn't be to put a horrible team on his back.

The thing you're missing here is the "eye test". Like everyone who threw out Joe's stats, etc., the part that is missing is what it was like watching him in those losses. Like, you KNEW he was the guy for the future. The way he balled out against everything working against him. 

Kind of like Cam's rookie year. Even though we were losing, I was SO HYPED to watch him. I knew he was the guy for us. 

I have had absolutely none of those experiences with Bryce. Not one moment has had me thinking he's our guy. I have had plenty of "about time" moments where he has created something as things were falling apart but its hard to be "wow'ed" by that when any 3rd string back up in the league could and should be able to do that. 

[Knaakedup]

Too add onto my previous post, the other part of this is the competitive fire. I just don't see it. 

What I do see, which is extremely troubling, is any time we have a penalty that sets us back I just know our drive is done for. 

In summary: I still miss Cam

[MasterAwesome]

1 hour ago, Varking said:

But Burrow was excelling and folks could see it. That’s why they went WR for him. They clearly asked him what he preferred because he showed he could be the guy. I mean he was flashing in week 1. He was keeping them in games early. And again, just in the first four games alone he went 1-2-1. We would kill right now for a win and a tie. 
 

People will give first round QBs passes so long as you show something that flashes. Burrow was in that group. Tua was getting killed because he wasn’t flashing. Fields got killed online because he wasn’t flashing. 
 

If Bryce was out here playing like Burrow did weeks 1-4 we likely have a win or two under our belts. 
 

If Bryce was showing out we wouldn’t care about this being a losing season. 
 

Right now we are hanging our hats on his performance in the 4th quarter of a game where his struggles early lead directly to 14 points for the other team. 

So Tua and Fields weren't flashing and yet their teams still invested significantly in them?  I feel like the two examples you picked are at completed odds with your argument.  Hell, we've been back and forth quite a bit about Fields but he's looked good these past two weeks.  Two weeks where the #1 receiver his team traded to acquire for him has gone a combined 361 yards and 4 TDs.  It feels like you're supporting my argument that investing in your QB (regardless of how much they have flashed) can pay big dividends.

[Varking]

5 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

So Tua and Fields weren't flashing and yet their teams still invested significantly in them?  I feel like the two examples you picked are at completed odds with your argument.  Hell, we've been back and forth quite a bit about Fields but he's looked good these past two weeks.  Two weeks where the #1 receiver his team traded to acquire for him has gone a combined 361 yards and 4 TDs.  It feels like you're supporting my argument that investing in your QB (regardless of how much they have flashed) can pay big dividends.

My point was Burrow flashed during his first year. He passed the eye test easily. Fields had flashy plays but didn’t really flash throwing wise until year 2. The Bears, however are getting credit for investing in Fields when all they did was accept the only player from their list we were willing to part with. They asked for Burns, Brown or Moore and we went with Moore because they believed he’d be easy to replace with a point guard at QB. 
 

We messed that up. I don’t believe for a moment the Bears would have added another DJ Moore level name to their roster “for Justin” had we not offered ours up. 
 

QBs do take time to level up and get used to the league for the most part. I’m not asking for Bryce to be a world beater even if he was the first overall pick in the draft. I’m asking for him to give me some wow moments while we lose. 

[tukafan21]

If you're the #1 pick in the NFL draft as a QB, you're expected to be able to deal with the pressure of expectations

Period.

And if you can't, then you shouldn't have been the #1 pick

Period.

End of discussion.