Just speculating... I wouldn't be surprised if Frank or Fitt is fired soon. Very soon.

[ForJimmy]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

That's pretty standard procedure for playbook writing.

It's really only hard to understand if you're pushing an agenda (like trying to blame Reich for everything).

That’s kind of how I read it. He sat down with Reich to design this offense and our playbook. He talked in depth about it during his interview. These fan theories will never stop though. Reich wanted Stroud, Tepper forced Young on them, they faked Young’s injury to bench him, now the juiciest one yet…. Brown is lying about helping create this offense. I mean he is the offensive coordinator after all.

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, ForJimmy said:

That’s kind of how I read it. He sat down with Reich to design this offense and our playbook. He talked in depth about it during his interview. These fan theories will never stop though. Reich wanted Stroud, Tepper forced Young on them, they faked Young’s injury to bench him, now the juiciest one yet…. Brown is lying about helping create this offense. I mean he is the offensive coordinator after all.

Pretty much. It's what he was hired to do, and it's consistent with his qualifications.

Had Reich had just wanted a rubber stamp guy, he could easily have hired somebody a lot less qualified than Thomas Brown.

[MasterAwesome]

7 minutes ago, CRA said:

Where was the energy the first 6 weeks?  When Frank and his poo O were being talked about from preseason to week 6.    Now, suddenly this week, you got a problem with me saying what has been said all season? 

and it's you choosing to paint this lie narrative.  I call it PR and bullshit.  All teams and coaches do it.  That's sports.   Another? Claiming this roster was a young QB away from legitimately competing.  That was always PR bologna.  What else are they going to tell a fanbase that hasn't seen a winning season  a half decade and that traded away all of our stud/fan favorites going into this year.... Or these guys are grossly incompetent.  Because the talent around the QB is weak and that was talked about this offseason.   You pick which one you prefer on that.  Blowing smoke or these folks can't see some really basic stuff. 

Can you relax a little?  I don't think I've ever seen you this riled up before.  I find it odd that you state over and over again how this is a classic Frank Reich offense but you seem unable to articulate any details about what a Frank Reich offense is.  Or at least I asked you for specifics, and you did not even attempt to answer that, so I am left to assume you don't know.

Okay so at least you gave me one example of what you think is PR bs.  The PR angle of saying we are a QB away from competing is obvious...it's trying to drum up hype this season.  But can you explain the PR angle of our OC saying *before the season* that he created our playbook?  Was that supposed to drum up hype?  "HELL YEAH OUR OC WROTE THE PLAYBOOK, LET'S FREAKING GOOOOOOO" doesn't quite pass the sniff test to me.

When Ryan Kalil took out an ad in the Observer guaranteeing we were gonna win the Super Bowl but then we proceeded to go 7-9 and miss the playoffs, was that PR bologna?  Or was that something he actually believed that simply didn't come to fruition?  Because if you are claiming Reich saying "we're a QB away from competing" is PR bs rather than something he believed that didn't come to fruition, then you would have to somehow prove that he didn't actually believe that.  Hell, I believed we were a QB away from competing considering we almost made the playoffs last year with Baker Mayfield/PJ Walker/Sam Darnold at QB.  It's pretty logical to believe that if you upgrade the far-and-away most important position in the NFL, then you can improve your record by a few games.

[CRA]

3 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

Can you relax a little?  I don't think I've ever seen you this riled up before.  I find it odd that you state over and over again how this is a classic Frank Reich offense but you seem unable to articulate any details about what a Frank Reich offense is.  Or at least I asked you for specifics, and you did not even attempt to answer that, so I am left to assume you don't know.

Nah, boss, no one is riled up.  You simply demanding someone prove to you something and at the same time claiming none of it has ever been discussed.   

I'll be glad to talk about why I dislike Frank's offense.   Let's start with a primary issue and a Frank signature issue.    The over usage of the shotgun formation that his O runs out of.    And you can go check the % in SD.  The % in Indy.  And now the % in Carolina.   That's Frank.   There is thread that has the yearly % on here.  Generally speaking, a light % for Frank would be a heavier year for McVay.  

I mean, if you concede that, we can talk about how Frank runs and passes out of it. 

In an ideal world, I don't have a problem w/ that given we drafted Bryce Young.  I think he needs a scheme that basically over uses it.  Problem is, the issues it creates when you don't have the OL talent and skill talent to pull it off.  Which we don't.   And Frank's teams have struggled to adjust when the talent isn't there to be doing it.  Which got him and his O booted 2x already. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ForJimmy]

4 minutes ago, CRA said:

Nah, boss, no one is riled up.  You simply demanding someone prove to you something and at the same time claiming none of it has ever been discussed.   

I'll be glad to talk about why I dislike Frank's offense.   Let's start with a primary issue and a Frank signature issue.    The over usage of the shotgun formation that his O runs out of.    And you can go check the % in SD.  The % in Indy.  And now the % in Carolina.   That's Frank.   There is thread that has the yearly % on here.  Generally speaking, a light % for Frank would be a heavier year for McVay.  

I mean, if you concede that, we can talk about how Frank runs and passes out of it. 

In an ideal world, I don't have a problem w/ that given we drafted Bryce Young.  I think he needs a scheme that basically over uses it.  Problem is, the issues it creates when you don't have the OL talent and skill talent to pull it off.  Which we don't.   And Frank's teams have struggled to adjust when the talent isn't there to be doing it.  Which got him and his O booted 2x already. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What percentage was Young in the shotgun in college? Both Brown and Reich have claimed they created this offense for Young. It’s not unusual to create an offense for your first round QB which appears to be what they are trying to do. If just the shotgun formation is the main reason behind your theory, I feel like Young debunks that pretty easily? 

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, CRA said:

Nah, boss, no one is riled up.  You simply demanding someone prove to you something and at the same time claiming none of it has ever been discussed.   

I'll be glad to talk about why I dislike Frank's offense.   Let's start with a primary issue and a Frank signature issue.    The over usage of the shotgun formation that his O runs out of.    And you can go check the % in SD.  The % in Indy.  And now the % in Carolina.   That's Frank.   There is thread that has the yearly % on here.  Generally speaking, a light % for Frank would be a heavier year for McVay.  

I mean, if you concede that, we can talk about how Frank runs and passes out of it. 

In an ideal world, I don't have a problem w/ that given we drafted Bryce Young.  I think he needs a scheme that basically over uses it.  Problem is, the issues it creates when you don't have the OL talent and skill talent to pull it off.  Which we don't.   And Frank's teams have struggled to adjust when the talent isn't there to be doing it.  Which got him and his O booted 2x already. 

Is that all you've got or are you googling more articles to try to find criticisms of Reich?

[CRA]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Is that all you've got or are you googling more articles to try to find criticisms of Reich?

I'm referencing discussions that were already had on this board in detail.  

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, CRA said:

I'm referencing discussions that were already had on this board in detail.  

And you consider those discussions on an internet forum authoritative?

[CamWhoaaCam]

WTF is going on in this thread...

[CRA]

3 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

What percentage was Young in the shotgun in college? Both Brown and Reich have claimed they created this offense for Young. It’s not unusual to create an offense for your first round QB which appears to be what they are trying to do. If just the shotgun formation is the main reason behind your theory, I feel like Young debunks that pretty easily? 

I mean, if you read my posts that where I would start the convo.  If there was going to be one.  People demanded proof. That's not the whole convo.  As I said in that post, if we can acknoledge that then we can get into how they run and pass out of it. But if basic facts of Frank vs the McVay don't actually matter....then is there really a discussion that is sought here on that?   Doesn't seem like it.   Because instead of acknowledging a base Frank signature.....it's just well, nah, Bryce Young voids the discussion. 

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

I mean, if you read my posts that where I would start the convo.  If there was going to be one.  People demanded proof. That's not the whole convo.  As I said in that post, if we can acknoledge that then we can get into how they run and pass out of it. But if basic facts of Frank vs the McVay don't actually matter....then is there really a discussion that is sought here on that?   Doesn't seem like it.   Because instead of acknowledging a base Frank signature.....it's just well, nah, Bryce Young voids the discussion. 

Sounds like you're looking for a way out of this conversation before it gets any deeper than the surface.

[MasterAwesome]

9 minutes ago, CRA said:

Nah, boss, no one is riled up.  You simply demanding someone prove to you something and at the same time claiming none of it has ever been discussed.   

I'll be glad to talk about why I dislike Frank's offense.   Let's start with a primary issue and a Frank signature issue.    The over usage of the shotgun formation that his O runs out of.    And you can go check the % in SD.  The % in Indy.  And now the % in Carolina.   That's Frank.   There is thread that has the yearly % on here.  Generally speaking, a light % for Frank would be a heavier year for McVay.  

I mean, if you concede that, we can talk about how Frank runs and passes out of it. 

In an ideal world, I don't have a problem w/ that given we drafted Bryce Young.  I think he needs a scheme that basically over uses it.  Problem is, the issues it creates when you don't have the OL talent and skill talent to pull it off.  Which we don't.   And Frank's teams have struggled to adjust when the talent isn't there to be doing it.  Which got him and his O booted 2x already. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

When did I ask you why you dislike Frank's offense?  Huh?  How do I post the same question twice and you still somehow answer a different one?  But okay ignoring that weird comment...okay so this is clearly a Frank Reich offense because it runs out of shotgun a lot.  Okay...hardly the compelling argument I was hoping for, but I guess we can leave it at that.  We don't even know what a "Thomas Brown offense" would even look like, which seems like a pretty important detail when trying to determine how much of an offense is Reich vs. Brown.  You choose to believe a Brown offense would be similar to a McVay offense because...why?  Brown said so?  So was it PR bs when he said he developed the playbook, but not PR bs when he said he integrated elements of McVay's offense?  This gets complicated when we gotta pick and choose from the same guy's comments which are BS and which are factual.

Can you now answer whether Ryan Kalil's full-page ad guaranteeing the Super Bowl was PR bologna or not?

[MasterAwesome]

4 minutes ago, CRA said:

I mean, if you read my posts that where I would start the convo.  If there was going to be one.  People demanded proof. That's not the whole convo.  As I said in that post, if we can acknoledge that then we can get into how they run and pass out of it. But if basic facts of Frank vs the McVay don't actually matter....then is there really a discussion that is sought here on that?   Doesn't seem like it.   Because instead of acknowledging a base Frank signature.....it's just well, nah, Bryce Young voids the discussion. 

Just stop breadcrumbing and get to the point.  It shouldn't take 27 posts back and forth before we get to your actual argument.  This isn't a 4-season Netflix series.

[WhoKnows]

43 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

"Frank bad"

(the point)

Scot, this is also where you get tripped up. I’ve seen it before multiple times where you’ve jumped through hoops to defend your guys and did ignore articles  to take the blame off of your guys. You were a huge Fitterer fan, we’ve argued about that before and sorry, he’s been terrible so far, draft, trades and FAs. You are also a huge Reich fan and dude, he said playoffs and we are a worse team than Wilk’s version. We treated preseason terrible as if not showing our offense was more important than getting the team actually ready, leading to an 0-6 start.

I have no doubt that Brown was charged with building the playbook as the OC. It’s funny that you linked an article about that but missed in @ForJimmy’s link that they laid out exactly what happened:

Brown said he and Reich broke their offensive identities down to their roots when designing the Panthers' playbook, building it back together with unique ideas peppered throughout. Brown once called the playbook split between his philosophy and Reich's "60-40."

Reich saw some overlap in how he and Brown wanted to plan the offense from the start. He estimated anywhere from 30 to 40 percent of their systems were already "similar" and that the melding process involved picking from new and old language and bringing it together.

You and @CRA might both right. Seems like the playbook is likely 35% Brown/McVay, 25% Reich and 40% overlap. Does it really surprise anyone that while Reich called plays that he likely used more calls from the 65% of the playbook that was what he’s run before? It shouldn’t surprise anyone that the offense still looked like Reich in Indy while he called plays. Doesn’t mean Brown wasn’t in charge of building the playbook either and it wouldn’t surprise me if the offense looks and feels more like watching McVay/Brown while he calls plays.