Calling it - the Bryce Young trade is the worst in team history

[LinvilleGorge]

9 minutes ago, *FreeFua* said:

I actually like Maye better than Williams. There’s a lot of things Williams does that I’m not sure will translate over to the NFL

I think they're both great prospects but Caleb's flaw is fatal in the NFL  if it can't be addressed.

[weyco2000]

18 hours ago, 4Corners said:

Where have you heard rumors about Maye? I’ve seen the speculation about Williams. 
 

im not arguing with you about Maye I would just like to see where you got this info. Guys have more leverage now about coming back to school because of NIL. If they don’t want to play for the cards or Raiders - they can probably get a big chunk of money to return, dominate and see where the draft order lines up next season. 

My son there’s a few rumors circulating on campus, I take it with a grain of salt, but hell who knows… with Chicago on the clock, I’m sure Trubiskeys name will certainly come up. 
 

He certainly doesn’t need the money or he would be playing for Bama. Like you said, with the NIL anything is possible.

[weyco2000]

5 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

Even with the NIL situation now, I don’t see any QB turning down the NFL if they’re projected a Top 2 pick.

They may try and pull an Eli and force a trade, but I can’t see anyone else doing a Luck and going back to school.  At least not counting Shedeur, different situation with him playing for his dad and having just got to Colorado this year.  Plus I believe Deion when he says his son isn’t going to the draft to be the 2nd pick, I think they’d rather risk waiting a year so he has a shot at being the #1 overall pick.

Sure the NIL money is nice, but it’s still much less money than they’d make on their signing bonus and one more year until they’re able to sign a mega 2nd contract if they pan out.

We don’t know what he’s getting in NIL money, like I said earlier, if was that hard up for money he’d be elsewhere. Some folks make decisions based on what’s best for them and not solely on monetary compensation.

As for Shedeur, his father needs to let him make his own decisions for what is best for him, not for Deion… seems a little selfish on his part.

[SteveSmithGaveMeAShiner]

2 hours ago, thebdawg said:

Bryce didn’t think the 6’7 270 lb defensive end would read the screen, jump in front of the pass and catch it with one hand and no gloves. 

He was shadowing Thomas, who was standing still, so "best case" scenario was an incompletion or a four yard loss. Bryce himself said he should've turfed it. For sure an athletic play to come away with the pick but Hutch read the screen from the jump, so Bryce needs to eat the down and get out without a loss or a bad turnover deep in his own territory. If a guy's elite skill is field awareness/processing, throwing picks on screens makes me question that assessment.

[AU-panther]

2 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I really don't think this narrative is accurate. The guy hold the ball forever and the NFL is more and more becoming a league about getting the ball out as fast as possible. If Caleb can't speed up his processing I don't think he's going to translate.

I agree that can be a red flag, and hurt tremendously at the next level, but the question becomes is he holding on to the ball that long, because he can't process quickly, or because he has the ability to extend plays and he relies on that too much. 

Either way, both of these guys would have been top picks the past two years.  Honestly those two and Trevor might be the top 3 QB prospects in the last 10 years, maybe Burrow also.

Just another reason why trading away a 2024 1st round pick was a huge gamble.  This year's #1 and #2 picks is going to be worth a lot more than these past years.   

 

[hepcat]

It's close to the worst trade in NFL history if Bryce doesn't work out. If Bryce looked like he did on Sunday in this 3rd year, I'd say cut him. He's still a rookie. I'm not in the get rid of him camp just yet. I'm fully on fire Scott Fitterer if this team doesn't win a game soon though. If they lose to the Texans, Bears, and Colts....GTFO. 

[Hogan]

On 10/8/2023 at 10:23 PM, TN05 said:

Doesn't matter if he pans out eventually. The entire idea behind it was to win now, and we inexplicably traded out future #1 pick and top wideout for a a QB with "elite processing" and zero elite traits. The entire team has regressed in every department. Nothing is going right. Not only are we not winning now, we're not winning at all.

This might still be tolerable if Bryce Young looked like a #1 pick, but he doesn't. Our superprocessor, Napoleon Bonaparte of a quarterback is making some of the worst decisions you'll ever see, leading to Clausen-esque interceptions, with very little to show otherwise in any time other than garbage time. The coaching staff clearly has no faith in him. The fact he doesn't have weapons or the best line in the league does not matter - if he's not ready to carry a team, we should not have traded what we did for him.

As far as I can tell, no NFL team that traded a first round pick has ever ended up with it being the #1 pick. We will likely end up being the first. This is an outright embarrassment and the worst trade I can think of that we've ever done. Oddly enough, this was one time analytics would have helped Tepper because literally nothing about Young's physical profile screams "NFL quarterback". It will take years to dig ourselves out of this mess.

And before you mention it - no, Sean Gilbert doesn't count. This is because it wasn't actually a trade (it was signing a player under another team's franchise tag), and because Gilbert wasn't actually terrible - he was one of the better pieces on our 1999 and 2000 defenses, just not anywhere near the price of two first-round picks. The most disastrous part of Gilbert was his salary.

I spoke with someone in the Panther organization last week and asked about the trade. We all know that DJ Moore was a deal breaker. Chicago had to have Moore to make the trade. But...my question was this: Was the 2024 1st round pick a deal breaker? Explanation: Did Fitterer even ATTEMPT to make the 2024 pick contingent? Like, "IF our 2024 pick is a top five pick, we will keep it and give you our 2025 first round pick." This is done all the time. My guess is: Since the Panthers thought they would be good in '23, they didn't even mention this. 

This person stressed that DJ Moore was the deal breaker. I in turn stressed that it's time for a new GM.

 

[Hogan]

On 10/8/2023 at 11:42 PM, CamWhoaaCam said:

For sure it will be the moment we hand the Bears the #1 overall pick which happens to be a transcendent QB in Caleb Williams.

 

Any time a team has the #1 and #2 pick in the draft back to back you're going down in history those are franchise changing situations.

Just curious...

Most people will admit that no one has any idea who will go from college to NFL and be a "transcendent" QB. Except you. Some how, you know that Williams WITHOUT  question will be better than Drake Maye in the NFL. I also remember you posting this summer that Justin Fields would have a breakout year in '23. 

This leads to: What will Chicago do? Pass on generational QB Williams and keep generational QB Fields? 

How do you know these things when virtually no one can predict who will be a great NFL QB? 

[CamWhoaaCam]

1 minute ago, Hogan said:

Just curious...

Most people will admit that no one has any idea who will go from college to NFL and be a "transcendent" QB. Except you. Some how, you know that Williams WITHOUT  question will be better than Drake Maye in the NFL. I also remember you posting this summer that Justin Fields would have a breakout year in '23. 

This leads to: What will Chicago do? Pass on generational QB Williams and keep generational QB Fields? 

How do you know these things when virtually no one can predict who will be a great NFL QB? 

Just curious why are you just remembering my quotes?

 

I'm just a man with an opinion. You don't have to take my word. I'm just giving my opinion.

 

 

[Hogan]

On 10/9/2023 at 12:30 AM, tukafan21 said:

There's a couple really weird aspects about this whole thing.

First is that if we don't make the trade, we're likely nowhere near the worst team in the league and thus wouldn't have even ended up with the #1 pick in the draft anyways.  We'd have still had DJ, whoever we would have taken at 9, someone else in the 2nd, and ended up with like a Jacoby Brissett at QB, that's a better team than what we have right now.

The other, is that the trade might end up being so bad that instead of setting us back 5-7 years, it actually might expedite the re-build and get it started sooner.  If after year 2 or 3, we're in a position to draft a new QB, which we very well may be, then I think we do and the re-set starts sooner than the usually 4-5 year window that a high first round pick would usually get before the team tries to re-set.

And honestly, I'm not seeing anything out of this team that says we won't be picking right back in the Top 5 in 2025 again.  There really isn't much at all to be positive about with this team right now, at least not in terms of anything positive for the long term success of this franchise.

As I posted above, the way the Panthers COULD have had the top pick is to make it contingent. Make the trade and make the 2024 pick contingent. "If we are in the top five, we keep it and give you our 2025 pick."

[Hogan]

3 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I really don't think this narrative is accurate. The guy hold the ball forever and the NFL is more and more becoming a league about getting the ball out as fast as possible. If Caleb can't speed up his processing I don't think he's going to translate.

As you say my friend, there are NO 100% guarantee NFL QB's playing college football. 

[Hogan]

1 hour ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Just curious why are you just remembering my quotes?

 

I'm just a man with an opinion. You don't have to take my word. I'm just giving my opinion.

 

 

The only reason i remember your QB comments is because you don't talk about Drake Maye being on the same level as Williams and Fields. Drake is 6-5...has a strong arm...has elite accuracy...and great feet. Does that mean he's a sure thing? No. No one is. I've just noticed you tend to leave him off the list.

As we've seen with Young, it matters A LOT who you have around you in college.

[tukafan21]

3 hours ago, weyco2000 said:

We don’t know what he’s getting in NIL money, like I said earlier, if was that hard up for money he’d be elsewhere. Some folks make decisions based on what’s best for them and not solely on monetary compensation.

As for Shedeur, his father needs to let him make his own decisions for what is best for him, not for Deion… seems a little selfish on his part.

I mean, no we don't know what he's making, but I know it's not even remotely close to the $36 million contract that Stroud got as the #2 pick this past year.

Sure, he could take out some insurance against injury if he returns, but it's still a massive gamble when you're supposed to be such a high draft pick as a QB.  Hell, even if he just has a shaky season, maybe gets injured and misses most of the year but isn't career ending and he then falls into the middle/late first round, that would cost him $25 million on his rookie deal.

And all of that is still ignoring that waiting an extra year is one more year before he can sign one of those monster $200+ million contracts assuming he isn't a bust.

There is a reason nobody else has pulled a Luck before and gone back to school instead of being a QB as a Top 3 pick in the draft, it really makes no sense.  You're just better off refusing to sign with a team and forcing a trade like Eli, it might not be a great PR look, but it's the better financial move.

[tukafan21]

1 hour ago, Hogan said:

As I posted above, the way the Panthers COULD have had the top pick is to make it contingent. Make the trade and make the 2024 pick contingent. "If we are in the top five, we keep it and give you our 2025 pick."

Doubt the Bears would have agreed to that and I'm not even sure you can do those trades in the NFL like you can in the NBA.  I think if you could, we'd see them happen more often, and I don't think I've ever seen it done.  They can do it based on a player being traded and then how many snaps they play or how far your team makes it in the playoffs, but I've never seen an NFL pick traded with Top X protections like the NBA does.