Breaking News I knew about 10 years ago

[Epistaxis]

If Pete gets in before Shoeless Joe, I'll burn down Cooperstown.

This.

Minus the arson.

[2shy]

I understand your point.

I would simply point out that for ME, baseball is a little different.

The history of baseball and the records plus the stats have become almost an entity in and of itself.

It allows for the connection between generations of fans, people like my father and grandfather.

We could talk about the guys and compare eras.

Yes, segregation was a factor back in the day, as were the parks that didn't even have outfield fences.

But at least you could LOOK at the ***** leagues (Don't Reid me bro) and see those guys and their stats and know something about them.

You could figure in that parks are all different even today and make an argument one way or another.

With THIS particualr brand of cheating, essentially sanctioned by ratBud Selig, I can't do that with my era.

Don't tell me that OTC stuff has the powers of amplification that the real WWE/powerlifter/horseroids do.

They don't. You don't want to go there with me. I'm well versed.

Bottom line, I'm angry, and it has more to do with baseball as an American Standard than anything else.

Like Mama and Apple Pie. You don't sh*t on that.

again where is the line? where is the line? where is the line? where is the line? where is the line? where is the line?

after that answer me this; IF I had a 50 lbs of magic dust that may form time-to-time make you painlessly crap gold nuggets and painlessly piss hundred dollar bills, would you take it?

plus Ill add this too, 18-25 males produce higher HG and testosterone than males in their 30s. Only allow 30 old men to play sports?

you know there are many other victor contes across the earth. he was just some no body with a location at a chitting strip mall. nanotechnology is here, same for genetic mutations.

talking with old timers about new and old, is fine if you want to kill time and bs. just my opinion, its pointless to do such things. At one point I almost did a time-line of events that changed the game. You hit on one being the ***** leagues. Rule changing was also HUGE. ie lowering the mound. equipment ie way/type of baseball where made, light better design bats, cheats etc etc video(by players)/tv/reporting changed the game. adding teams made all pitching diluted. baseball players were among the last to use weight lifting, players had to stop and go fight in the wars. so so much. to me its impossible to compare different players of selective eras.

no way im comparing OTC supps with animal roids. clean and cream pasted all sort of testing, there are supplements out now claiming the same. HG is use like candy, jonny damon took so much he was a stand in for geco caveman.

Im just as angry and have been for some time, its not healthy. the oak As were my team, hung many posters of them. became a st lou fan as tonny manged them, very happy to see mac join(i still have MANY ball cards of him). back eight years after having the same feelings, I stopped watching/giving my money to baseball/all sports. still do watch a st lou game and if poolholes is a cheat........it will not take much for me to go D-fen.

just saying humans will cheat if money is to be had and its a near impossible to hope no one trys and "cheat". american part? ¿Ha estado usted en una vida de coma bajo una piedra? i feel like myself thats a deeper issue coming out..

[Scrumtrilescent]

The line is pretty simple...if it was illegal to take, then if they were on it then they were cheating. Like crime in general, it will never be completely eradicated of course. That doesn't mean you stop trying to clean it up. Giving up isn't an option.

[Kevin Greene]

If Pete gets in before Shoeless Joe, I'll burn down Cooperstown.

They're both part of baseball's history. The lesson has been learned, the punishment made. I have no problem if baseball puts Shoeless Joe in the Hall. But Rose needs to go in for what he did as a player, despite doing some stupid poo as a manager. To me watching baseball during the height of the Big Red Machine and all the great battles with the Dodgers and then Rose's time in Philly, baseball isn't whole until Rose is completely back inside baseball and in the Hall. I want to see that moment when he makes his Hall acceptance speech.

For what it's worth I have played golf with Sparky Anderrson before and he doesn't think Rose will get in the Hall until he's 6 feet under.

[Scrumtrilescent]

That's what lifetime means! lol

[Epistaxis]

Very colorful and underliney "where is the line" stuff deathmask, but as Scrum said, the line is as plain as the nose on your face. Illegal....admitted use....no dice.

As to my high horse, I'll come down when you present a decent argument.

[chbright]

when it comes to hgh and no testing how do you determine who you let in and dont if they all wont admit to using hgh or even roids. we are likely to see guys that may have never used an illegal substance in their life not get in just because of the era they played in and supected to use. then again you likely will have guys that used everything under the sun, yet look clean to everyone and they get in.

are we really going to punish those of this era that did it the right way, because of the ones that didnt do it right? are we going to punish those that used to keep up with others using right along with them. put a * by the users idc, but it is another way the game changed, up there with the mound hieght (biggest of them all), stadiums (look at old yankee stadium and the new launching pad), expanded teams in an era where football, not baseball is kids new dream (biggest sport is now football by a mile and its not just in $$$, but in kids wanting to play it), hell racism.

should we put an * by the babe b/c they didnt combined MLB and the ***** league? or how about roger maris, he hit more than the babe, but in more games. if roids is a big no no, then put the "*" back on maris as he, like big mac, didnt do it the same way the babe did. or put an * on the babe for hitting more than anyone in a shorter season. which is the "right" record to not have the big ol "*"? todays game or the original?

personally put them all in as different era's. pre WWII, expanded season era, post mound change era, roids era, post roids era. i'm sorry but i still dont by the argument that the records are there to compare eras. the era is so important to the rules, the way the game is played (where oh were did the art of the steal go, or guys pitching 400+ innings of old, hell the complete game), and training of the athletes.

[Epistaxis]

The players, particularily the clean ones, get to share in the blame for this BS era too.

They are in control of their own damn union, no?

So if you are truly in the majority, and only a few dbags are making this WWE style entertainment and not a true sport, than your asses SHOULD have been SCREAMING this sh*t aint right and it has to frickin' stop.

Instead, they kept quiet.

My guess is likely because Crazy Ol' JOSE was probably NOT crazy when he said way more than half of them were using.

So no, I wouldn't feel too bad if a significant chunk of these guys didn't get in.

I don't believe any of them anymore, and the fact that some of the most hallowed records in the game fell in this era makes that suitable punishment for the lot of them.

[Scrumtrilescent]

I wouldn't care if we kept every player from that era out of the HOF except Maddux, Gwynn, and Boggs. God knows Boogerpicker, Tubs, and Chickenbone weren't on the 'roids.

[Claws]

I wouldn't care if we kept every player from that era out of the HOF except Maddux, Gwynn, and Boggs. God knows Boogerpicker, Tubs, and Chickenbone weren't on the 'roids.

I almost agree. Either vote some in or none. But I also like to think Griffey was clean.

[pantherfan49]

I hear that next week Sammy Sosa is going to admit to knowing English when he pretended that he didn't in front of Congress during the steroid investigations, and that he will also admit that he does in fact have dark skin.

[2shy]

Very colorful and underliney "where is the line" stuff deathmask, but as Scrum said, the line is as plain as the nose on your face. Illegal....admitted use....no dice.

As to my high horse, I'll come down when you present a decent argument.

sad to see you quit and didnt take you for that.

Illegal?!??!? i laugh at that. simpleton sporting player hmmm "if doc wrote me a prescription, its not illegal". again 30% of current are on "ADD" meds, which are illegal without. no telling what rules say about roids or testosterone, in regards to getting s prescription. besides i'm not (clue mac voice) I not here to talk about the past, im here to talk about where the current LINE NEEDS TO BE. I agree with youz guyz about the pass cheaters, i have been questioning the NOW. Ive asked and ask about wheres the line in now-terms and my magic dust, no answers... past cheats are no-good turds. I've been talking in current era, miscommunication.

[2shy]

I hear that next week Sammy Sosa is going to admit to knowing English when he pretended that he didn't in front of Congress during the steroid investigations, and that he will also admit that he does in fact have dark skin.

that was too funny then and still now.

[Mjphillips86]

Its really sad the state that baseball has gotten itself into. Theres a whole genration of players now that wether they used steroids or not will always be linked to them and being labled as a question mark because of the era that they played in. It really is to bad...