Open Window Throw Selection & Accuracy for QBs so far

[Varking]

So do we not throw deep passes because Bryce is basically one of the worst at it per these charts in all the NFL or is the list poo with little data?

[Untouchable]

10 minutes ago, Varking said:

So do we not throw deep passes because Bryce is basically one of the worst at it per these charts in all the NFL or is the list poo with little data?

Data could be poo, but there is also more factors than just the QB that goes into throwing the deep ball.  Data is just an indicator, the tape is still king.

[Icege]

47 minutes ago, Varking said:

So do we not throw deep passes because Bryce is basically one of the worst at it per these charts in all the NFL or is the list poo with little data?

I'm going to assume that you don't understand what those mean given that you didn't mention them rather than assuming you were just focusing on the one graph that you believed validated your feelings about current QB play.

Only 5 QBs have had a lower clean pocket percentage than Bryce. When your QB is consistently under pressure that makes it difficult to do much of anything, let alone allow a deep passing play to develop. When you combine that with only one WR being in the first quadrant, and that's 33yr old Adam Thielen, that's going to make it incredibly difficult for the QB to find an open target. The other 3 Panthers WRs are all in the third quadrant.

Does all of that mean that Bryce has the best deep ball in the world and every mistake that he's made is somebody else's fault? Absolutely not. Does it mean that the team's lack of a deep passing game is entirely due to his average-at-best deep passing ability? Not at all.

What it means, as much as some Huddlers don't want to acknowledge/believe/feel/whatever it, is that the awful play from the offensive line and wide receivers are making things difficult for a rookie QB who is already having to deal with the difficult transition from quarterbacking in college vs. quarterbacking in the NFL. Anybody expecting him to be just firing 20+ yard passes when his OL is getting beat and WRs aren't getting open is living in a Madden fantasy world.

Hopefully that helps you understand what you're seeing a little better.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Icege

[ForJimmy]

2 minutes ago, Icege said:

I'm going to assume that you don't understand what those mean given that you didn't mention them rather than assuming you were just focusing on the one graph that you believed validated your feelings about current QB play.

Only 5 QBs have had a lower clean pocket percentage than Bryce. When your QB is consistently under pressure that makes it difficult to do much of anything, let alone allow a deep passing play to develop. When you combine that with only one WR being in the first quadrant, and that's 33yr old Adam Thielen, that's going to make it incredibly difficult for the QB to find an open target. The other 3 Panthers WRs are all in the third quadrant.

Does all of that mean that Bryce has the best deep ball in the world and every mistake that he's made is somebody else's fault? Absolutely not. Does it mean that the team's lack of a deep passing game is entirely due to his average-at-best deep passing ability? Not at all.

What it means, as much as some Huddlers don't want to acknowledge/believe/feel/whatever it, is that the awful play from the offensive line and wide receivers are making things difficult for a rookie QB who is already having to deal with the difficult transition from quarterbacking in college vs. quarterbacking in the NFL. Anybody expecting him to be just firing 20+ yard passes when his OL is getting beat and WRs aren't getting open is living in a Madden fantasy world.

Hopefully that helps you understand what you're seeing a little better.

A lot of heads will continue to be in the sand and this data is going to fall on stubborn deaf ears. I appreciate all the data you have compiled here and it really helps tell the whole story.

[joemac]

I wonder if San Francisco would at all be interested in trading Aiyuk???  Probably not, but they do have a dearth of offensive weapons, and they probably are not going to be able to afford to pay them all....

[Varking]

19 minutes ago, Icege said:

I'm going to assume that you don't understand what those mean given that you didn't mention them rather than assuming you were just focusing on the one graph that you believed validated your feelings about current QB play.

Only 5 QBs have had a lower clean pocket percentage than Bryce. When your QB is consistently under pressure that makes it difficult to do much of anything, let alone allow a deep passing play to develop. When you combine that with only one WR being in the first quadrant, and that's 33yr old Adam Thielen, that's going to make it incredibly difficult for the QB to find an open target. The other 3 Panthers WRs are all in the third quadrant.

Does all of that mean that Bryce has the best deep ball in the world and every mistake that he's made is somebody else's fault? Absolutely not. Does it mean that the team's lack of a deep passing game is entirely due to his average-at-best deep passing ability? Not at all.

What it means, as much as some Huddlers don't want to acknowledge/believe/feel/whatever it, is that the awful play from the offensive line and wide receivers are making things difficult for a rookie QB who is already having to deal with the difficult transition from quarterbacking in college vs. quarterbacking in the NFL. Anybody expecting him to be just firing 20+ yard passes when his OL is getting beat and WRs aren't getting open is living in a Madden fantasy world.

Hopefully that helps you understand what you're seeing a little better.

The charts say, regardless of if they are open or not downfield, he’s not been accurate. 

[Icege]

5 minutes ago, joemac said:

I wonder if San Francisco would at all be interested in trading Aiyuk???  Probably not, but they do have a dearth of offensive weapons, and they probably are not going to be able to afford to pay them all....

Mang... seeing the clean pocket % for Brock Purdy and how much separation their WRs are getting it's no wonder CMC is balling out. Defenses can't key in on him like they did when he was here.

[Icege]

7 minutes ago, Varking said:

The charts say, regardless of if they are open or not downfield, he’s not been accurate. 

They do, but that's not what you were bitching about. You asked why we didn't throw deep passes.

1 hour ago, Varking said:

So do we not throw deep passes because Bryce is basically one of the worst at it per these charts in all the NFL or is the list poo with little data?

Now if you want to assume that we're not throwing deep passes strictly because of Bryce's size/skill, you're by all means welcome to believe that. Just don't pretend that you're not ignoring two major factors that are just as vital to the deep passing game as the QB's arm talent. It makes you look like an asshole or ignorant. Neither of those are good things.

Edited October 5, 2023 by Icege

[Varking]

2 minutes ago, Icege said:

They do, but that's not what you were bitching about. You asked why we didn't throw deep passes.

Now if you want to assume that we're not throwing deep passes strictly because of Bryce's size/skill, you're by all means welcome to believe that. Just don't pretend that it's ignoring two major factors that are just as vital to the deep passing game as the QB's arm talent.

It makes you look like an asshole or ignorant. Neither of those are good things.

When the poo have I mentioned Bryce’s size when throwing deep balls? I think I might not have mentioned his weight one time since we drafted him and I’m on record never caring about his height. 
 

Comments like that make you look like an asshole or ignorant… oh wait! 

Edited October 5, 2023 by Varking

[joemac]

Bryce's accuracy has seen fine to me?  He doesn't seem to be an inaccurate QB.  His completion percentage for the season is 65%, and his game by game completion percentage has gone up double digits each game hes played.  His stats across the board have improved each game hes played.  

[OneBadCat]

I don’t think the arm talent is the issue with Bryce’s deep ball. It’s a combo of accuracy, slower WRs, and lack of moxy on Bryce’s part. He seems too timid to take a chance . Even if it’s not going to work we need to take chances down field to show some aggression. Defenses need to at least consider the fact we “could” go deep. 

[gmonjimbo]

This was posted on twitter and reddit. Part of the reason 0-4, the trenches (OL and DL) are in the bottom third of 3 out of 4 categories (Pass Block, Run Block, Run Defense, and Pass Rush)

Moving forward I hope they adopt the Eagles and 49ers approach. Every draft they should be drafting a OL and DL. 

Edited October 5, 2023 by gmonjimbo

[CPF4LIFE]

30 minutes ago, Icege said:

I'm going to assume that you don't understand what those mean given that you didn't mention them rather than assuming you were just focusing on the one graph that you believed validated your feelings about current QB play.

Only 5 QBs have had a lower clean pocket percentage than Bryce. When your QB is consistently under pressure that makes it difficult to do much of anything, let alone allow a deep passing play to develop. When you combine that with only one WR being in the first quadrant, and that's 33yr old Adam Thielen, that's going to make it incredibly difficult for the QB to find an open target. The other 3 Panthers WRs are all in the third quadrant.

Does all of that mean that Bryce has the best deep ball in the world and every mistake that he's made is somebody else's fault? Absolutely not. Does it mean that the team's lack of a deep passing game is entirely due to his average-at-best deep passing ability? Not at all.

What it means, as much as some Huddlers don't want to acknowledge/believe/feel/whatever it, is that the awful play from the offensive line and wide receivers are making things difficult for a rookie QB who is already having to deal with the difficult transition from quarterbacking in college vs. quarterbacking in the NFL. Anybody expecting him to be just firing 20+ yard passes when his OL is getting beat and WRs aren't getting open is living in a Madden fantasy world.

Hopefully that helps you understand what you're seeing a little better.

Yet you say all this and then you watch youngs college tape and there is clearly not much of a difference in his play style till now. He held the ball a long time to orchestrate big plays and make reads and you just CANT DO THAT in the NFL. Difference is, he was on a team that was just that much more talented than most teams they played. In the nfl everybody is the best of the best and also just as smart/awareness and will use your tendencies to their advantage. The vikings came out and said they locked on to bryces habits and were able to game plan around them. So while you say the OL and Wrs are hindering his big play potential i say its a qb who is still trying to implement his college play style and habits with the significant difference in skill around him and hasnt figured out yet that it just isnt gonna happen like that. He has to change his game. Plays are there to be made even with the current OL and Wrs, if they weren't then its NO REASON why Andy dalton was able to have success. It went from going up against a bad defense to bad playcalling after the vikings game. Bryce needs to make the adjustments and get the confidence if he is gonna be a franchise qb.

 

[CPF4LIFE]

24 minutes ago, joemac said:

Bryce's accuracy has seen fine to me?  He doesn't seem to be an inaccurate QB.  His completion percentage for the season is 65%, and his game by game completion percentage has gone up double digits each game hes played.  His stats across the board have improved each game hes played.  

Yes...lots of passes to RBs behind the line and screens will do that.