This stat tells it all

[panthers55]

Is that why the Colts seem to finish 12-4 every year? I would rather be held for ransom by P. Manning than Shakey Jake and I think most would tend to agree. Without looking I would say of the 12 playoff teams, 10 have their QB making around 10% of the cap.

Look at the division they played in until recently, they were guaranteed 6 wins much like Seattle was for years. They did do well in the regular season.

As for salaries go to this link and do your homework.

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playersbyposition.aspx?pos=144

There were only 8 guys who made that much and of those guys- 4 were in the playoffs. Of those 4 who made that much- only Peyton is left. BTW at 21 million he actually takes up almost 17% of their cap. 2009 cap-127 million so 10% would be 12.7 million.

In all fairness there were a couple guys between 8 and 9% in the playoffs- Favre, Rivers, Warner, and Brees. But there were other guys like Flacco, Romo and Sanchez who were under 5 million or less than 4%.

[weyco2000]

Are you Marty Hurney? Sure as hell sounds like it, you would rather pay Shakey Jake 8.5 mllion (6.6% of your cap for all you GM's) than 14 million for a HOF QB? Looking at P. Manning's numbers, he is going to give you 10 wins a year, a MVP season every 3 years, a QB rating of 95.2, complete 64.8% of his passes and go to a Pro Bowl 75% of the time. If Peppers is paid 16 million, then a guy who handles the ball every offensive play, is a bargain at 14 million. By the way, I said ALMOST 10% for the QB's making the playoffs (ten of the twelve and that was off the top of my head, I missed Romo)according to your calculations 5 of the 8 earn 6-8% of the cap and 2 are still under their initial rookie contract. Looks like QB's are important after all! Wait P. Mannning has only 1 Superbowl and according to the salary cap guru, he should have 4 or 5, dammmittt! Well only 6 active QB's have a ring and 3 of them are still hanging around. Only 2 didnt make it into the playoffs, of course I dont have to tell you that. Now put away your calculator, stop doing "homework" (dont trust anything on the internet), have a drink and enjoy a total disregard for the salary cap! I'm sure Jake will join ya, just dont ask him to throw ya a beer...WATCH IT! Just messing with ya, go PANTHERS!

[panthers55]

Are you Marty Hurney? Sure as hell sounds like it, you would rather pay Shakey Jake 8.5 mllion (6.6% of your cap for all you GM's) than 14 million for a HOF QB? Looking at P. Manning's numbers, he is going to give you 10 wins a year, a MVP season every 3 years, a QB rating of 95.2, complete 64.8% of his passes and go to a Pro Bowl 75% of the time. If Peppers is paid 16 million, then a guy who handles the ball every offensive play, is a bargain at 14 million. By the way, I said ALMOST 10% for the QB's making the playoffs (ten of the twelve and that was off the top of my head, I missed Romo)according to your calculations 5 of the 8 earn 6-8% of the cap and 2 are still under their initial rookie contract. Looks like QB's are important after all! Wait P. Mannning has only 1 Superbowl and according to the salary cap guru, he should have 4 or 5, dammmittt! Well only 6 active QB's have a ring and 3 of them are still hanging around. Only 2 didnt make it into the playoffs, of course I dont have to tell you that. Now put away your calculator, stop doing "homework" (dont trust anything on the internet), have a drink and enjoy a total disregard for the salary cap! I'm sure Jake will join ya, just dont ask him to throw ya a beer...WATCH IT! Just messing with ya, go PANTHERS!

Not sure where you are going with all that. I didn't say that Manning wasn't worth the money so that negates just about everything you said. What I said was that when you pay one guy almost 20% of your cap you have to make allowances in other areas and settle for more journeymen rather than stars or you have to replace them once they get good and demand more money. My argument is simply that you can get a very good quarterback for much less money and use the remainder to pay people at other spots that will make the team better.

The discussion was about whether you needed an elite quarterback to win a Superbowl. No one argues Manning isn't one of the best what I am saying is that he doesn't always play like one in the postseason which is why they have won only 1 superbowl in his career. And even in that game his passer rating was a 70.

How about drinking a beer yourself and take the time to actually read the thread and my posts so you can stay with the conversation instead of straying out there in left field with a bunch of stats and statements that while interesting aren't germaine to the discussion.

[weyco2000]

Now its 20%, pretty soon he will be one lonely guy. My original post states that a QB was more important than a dominant back and I would choose P. Manning. (You started the whole hate rant!) So, by giving him 20% of the cap is why they are in the playoffs with the best record or... looks like money well spent to me. Oh and by the way, he was MVP of that Superbowl. Good discussion though, I like a good debate.

[PuntJake]

It suggests that one facet of their team is ranked high. This is a team sport and one man does not make or break the success of a team.

ALL about the QB.

i'd have to disagree with the fact that one man doesn't make or break the success of a team. have you not been watching jake's play since mid season 08?

[top dawg]

The only average QB that i have seen win the Super Bowl is Trent Dilfer. You can argue about the greatness, or lack thereof, of the others, but they all had something that set them apart--- whether it was winning all season long, or getting hot in the playoffs.

I would argue that except for Dilfer, all the other championship QBs that I have seen for the last 30 something years that won the big one could flat out air the ball when necessary, and also carry the team with their arms when the running game was just not enough to get it done (and this includes Jim McMahon and Doug Williams).

If a QB ain't got that supreme confidence and swagger, then i don't want them.

If the coach is profoundly afraid to let the QB air the ball out, then I don't want them.

Great QBs on great teams, seem to always find a way to win the big one. Winners---a la Big Ben---****** victory from the jaws of defeat more times than not.

I want a winner who has that swagger.

[E CaT PanTHer]

The only average QB that i have seen win the Super Bowl is Trent Dilfer. You can argue about the greatness, or lack thereof, of the others, but they all had something that set them apart--- whether it was winning all season long, or getting hot in the playoffs.

I would argue that except for Dilfer, all the other championship QBs that I have seen for the last 30 something years that won the big one could flat out air the ball when necessary, and also carry the team with their arms when the running game was just not enough to get it done (and this includes Jim McMahon and Doug Williams).

If a QB ain't got that supreme confidence and swagger, then i don't want them.

If the coach is profoundly afraid to let the QB air the ball out, then I don't want them.

Great QBs on great teams, seem to always find a way to win the big one. Winners---a la Big Ben---****** victory from the jaws of defeat more times than not.

I want a winner who has that swagger.

well said

[weyco2000]

You nailed it! Reaching the playoffs is your goal and if you need to throw 60 times, so be it! A running attack is important, but show me a Superbowl winning run. A Superbowl victory comes down to the ability to throw the ball (either for a TD pass or to set up a FG) or a defensive stop. In 2003 Superbowl, the first half was run and defense, the second half was who is gonna score last. This was, in my opinion, Jake's best game ever and if not for a kick in the groin... Today's game places the game into the hands of the QB and if he can't read a defense, see ya next year! How many times did we see Jake "suckered" into a check down and then they drop back in coverage? (At least 18 times)

[E CaT PanTHer]

Playoffs:

Rushing Yards per Game:

Saints: 119.5 (7th/12 teams)

Colts: 71.5 (9th/12 teams)

Total Defense Yards per Game

Saints: 417 (9th/12 teams)

Colts: 329 (5th/12 teams)

The difference, Peyton Manning and Drew Brees. Panthers55, you tried to put up a good argument, but at the end of the day, you need a top tier QB to win a championship, PERIOD.

Case closed, thread closed, good day!

[Dpantherman]

look how easy it is to get a phantom pass interference call. just chuck it down the field late in the game so you can the ball at the 1 yard line. or drop back 50 and pray for roughing the passer. its all about the QB

[Kevin Greene]

Playoffs:

Rushing Yards per Game:

Saints: 119.5 (7th/12 teams)

Colts: 71.5 (9th/12 teams)

Total Defense Yards per Game

Saints: 417 (9th/12 teams)

Colts: 329 (5th/12 teams)

The difference, Peyton Manning and Drew Brees. Panthers55, you tried to put up a good argument, but at the end of the day, you need a top tier QB to win a championship, PERIOD.

Case closed, thread closed, good day!

Those stats don't account for 6 Viking fumbles. Or Favre at the end of regulation throwing late across his body over the middle for a pick rather than running for 8-10 yards and giving his team a chance to win in regulation. The Vikings dominated the game but turnovers and #4 stupidity were more than could be overcome.

[E CaT PanTHer]

Those stats don't account for 6 Viking fumbles. Or Favre at the end of regulation throwing late across his body over the middle for a pick rather than running for 8-10 yards and giving his team a chance to win in regulation. The Vikings dominated the game but turnovers and #4 stupidity were more than could be overcome.

Who cares? I didn't even have to add the stats but I did just to make my argument more convincing. Manning and Brees are in the super bowl, and even if the Vikings would have won, it would have been Manning and Favre, thus still proving my point.

Top tier QB's win championships, end of story.

[Kevin Greene]

In the last ten years, Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer beg to differ.

[panthers55]

Playoffs:

Rushing Yards per Game:

Saints: 119.5 (7th/12 teams)

Colts: 71.5 (9th/12 teams)

Total Defense Yards per Game

Saints: 417 (9th/12 teams)

Colts: 329 (5th/12 teams)

The difference, Peyton Manning and Drew Brees. Panthers55, you tried to put up a good argument, but at the end of the day, you need a top tier QB to win a championship, PERIOD.

Case closed, thread closed, good day!

What I said was true, it isn't whether you are elite or not but whether you play like one or not in the playoffs. You really want to say Brees was elite in the NFC Championship? Favre outplayed him by a ton but it was other factors. You can't exactly say the Saints played good defense but surely getting a ton of turnovers does the same thing. Bress is a classic example of a quarterback who was outplayed but won because of ther factors. Most times that is defense.

That games also shows that you can be an elite quarterback and play well like Favre did and still lose the game. In fact Minnesota had the better defense, ran better, and passed better. And still lost. So I don't see how your argument holds any water.