Rookie Bryce reminds me of rookie Tua

[PappyMay]

I agree, but instead of getting a speedster to blow the top off we went with another Marshall in Mingo. Hurts knowing that could of been Dell. Michael Wilson from the Cards is having a solid first few games too.  Imagine if we got Achane in the backfield and didnt pay Sanders $7mil to dance in a hole. Just watching everyone else hit on their picks while we flounder is breaking my heart. Bryce can be an NFL Starter just not with what he's been given.

[gmonjimbo]

For those who think Bryce can be the Panthers franchise QB or he is already approaching bust status - the best approach is to find that out sooner rather than later. Do what the Eagles, Bills, Dolphins did.

Go out this offseason and acquire proven NFL talent. Ironically, what the Bears did in asking and getting DJ Moore. Now they can properly evaluate their QB.

Fields doesn't pan out, well they now can take a QB top 5, and another receiver top 5 to pair with DJ Moore.  

[AceBoogie]

2 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

If literally everything else goes perfect. Maybe. That's what we're left to cling to already.

Not even perfect. Just average should do it. 

[PleaseCutStewart]

Sure... And give the Chiefs Hill back + Waddle and let's see how elite Mahomes can really be.

You don't draft a QB number one and then say all we need to do is get him 2 elite WRs, an elite oline, an elite TE, and a great offensive minded coach. Sam Darnold could do good enough with that talent around him....

Edited October 3, 2023 by PleaseCutStewart

[PleaseCutStewart]

2 hours ago, PappyMay said:

I agree, but instead of getting a speedster to blow the top off we went with another Marshall in Mingo. Hurts knowing that could of been Dell. Michael Wilson from the Cards is having a solid first few games too.  Imagine if we got Achane in the backfield and didnt pay Sanders $7mil to dance in a hole. Just watching everyone else hit on their picks while we flounder is breaking my heart. Bryce can be an NFL Starter just not with what he's been given.

Yeah... At least we could count on Hurney to nail his 1st round pick. Fitterer can't hit on any picks... Dude has to be fired after this year.

[LinvilleGorge]

2 hours ago, gmonjimbo said:

For those who think Bryce can be the Panthers franchise QB or he is already approaching bust status - the best approach is to find that out sooner rather than later. Do what the Eagles, Bills, Dolphins did.

Go out this offseason and acquire proven NFL talent. Ironically, what the Bears did in asking and getting DJ Moore. Now they can properly evaluate their QB.

Fields doesn't pan out, well they now can take a QB top 5, and another receiver top 5 to pair with DJ Moore.  

Agreed. If at the end of the year you still think Bryce is the future then you have to put all of your resources into doing the best possible job you can to put the best possible supporting cast around him. If it doesn't work out next year then you move on with your 2025 1st rounder that you haven't let Fitts trade away.

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Agreed. If at the end of the year you still think Bryce is the future then you have to put all of your resources into doing the best possible job you can to put the best possible supporting cast around him. If it doesn't work out next year then you move on with your 2025 1st rounder that you haven't let Fitts trade away.

wait for it, wait for it...........

[woahfraze]

7 minutes ago, PleaseCutStewart said:

Sure... And give the Chiefs Hill back + Waddle and let's see how elite Mahomes can really be.

You don't draft a QB number one and then say all we need to do is get him 2 elite WRs, an elite oline, an elite TE, and a great offensive minded coach. Sam Darnold could do good enough with that talent around him....

Noone is saying he needs to be surrounded by world beaters at all positions.  But the fact of the matter is that the offensive infrastructure--that is both the personnel, the scheme, and the playcalling--have not set him up to succeed.  

If any one of the following was happening, Bryce would look better:

• The offensive line was executing (and yes, part of the struggles are due to injuries, which are largely out of anyone's control);
• The scheme did not put ask the offensive line to block in a scheme (zone) that is not suited to their strengths (power scheme);
• The playcalling/scheme/coaching directives were not so predictable--e.g. such a large percentage of runs on first down, draining the play clock to 1 before snapping, not utilizing the whole play book and limiting the number of routes downfield

All of the above have allowed defenses to really crowd the line of scrimmage and both overwhelm the offensive line and jam a group of receiving targets that aren't the best at creating separation in the first place.  The scheme does not call or much motion or route combinations that would assist the receivers from creating separation on a more consistent basis.  It's all a bunch of feedback loops.  There are deficiencies in a lot of areas, and each deficiency magnifies problems in other areas.  It all adds up to a dysfunctional offense.  And a lot of these compounding issues can be corrected not by having all stars at every position, but simply getting competent, NFL-level performances from the players on the roster.  

Bryce is not blameless.  He has missed some WRs.  He has failed to recognized disguised coverages and blitzes.  He has not held onto the ball when trying to extend plays.  But the anti-Bryce crowd here has been blind to a fair number of positives.  He has shown some ability to extend plays.  He has shown the ability to scramble for first downs.  He has shown pretty good accuracy in stretches where the offense plays with more tempo and they give him the opportunity to work the short-middle of the field.  And most encouragingly of all, he has shown some really good anticipation on a few throws, releasing the ball before the receiver gets out of their break.  Yes, the arm strength is never going to be top notch.  But I don't agree with the takes that he has zero zip on his throws.  

The anti-Bryce crowd seem to falsely be painting the view of Bryce supporters as folks that think he's absolutely a franchise QB.  But almost no one is saying that.  Most of us are acknowledging that he's in a bad situation.  That context is important.  I was a Stroud guy going into the draft.  I'm glad to see him doing well with the Texans.  I wish we had taken him.  But I don't think he'd be performing nearly as well in our current situation, not that that matters since Bryce is our QB.  

[CPcavedweller]

4 hours ago, NAS said:

I remember most questioning if Tua has the physical ability, the arm to be effective in the NFL during his rookie year.  He had some terrible performances early on but started showing promise later in the season.  He was also on a much better team offensively. Bryce just needs to show he can stretch the field in the NFL when needed, everything else will be good.  Tua faced the same criticisms and doubts.

 

Tua was close to 50 in QBR and had a whole yard or two more per pass attempt. We just played potentially the worst defense in the NFL and didn't score a touchdown. 

Bryce is not Tua, though it may take having a Hall of Fame receiver and another one or two first round draft pick weapons to make it work with him.

What happens to our defense in that situation? Garbage.

[RJK]

Tua is a giant compared to Bryce 

[Rags]

4 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

All we have to do is surround Bryce with the best offensive supporting cast in football? That's not a guy you make a massive trade up to get. Because when you make that trade you greatly reduce your ability to create that situation.

I mean it's happening to the other former Alabama QB too. Look at Jalen Hurts first two years.

I don't think "Getting two elite weapons and letting the rest figure itself out." is a bad plan. Just...really hard without that FRP. Both Eagles and Dolphins were able to draft one and trade for the other weapon. 

This rebuild as a whole has been poorly planned.

[countryboi]

I always thought Tua was Bryce mid floor and Brees was his ceiling 

[Mr Mojo Risin]

5 hours ago, NAS said:

I remember most questioning if Tua has the physical ability, the arm to be effective in the NFL during his rookie year.  He had some terrible performances early on but started showing promise later in the season.  He was also on a much better team offensively. Bryce just needs to show he can stretch the field in the NFL when needed, everything else will be good.  Tua faced the same criticisms and doubts.

 

Trevor Lawrence's rookie year is a much better comparison. He also had Chark and Shenault as his WRs that year too.

[NAS]

24 minutes ago, Mr Mojo Risin said:

Trevor Lawrence's rookie year is a much better comparison. He also had Chark and Shenault as his WRs that year too.

Nobody doubted Trevor’s physical abilities to play in the NFL