Trade Gross, Let Schwartz Start Next Year

[ncguy2184]

no

[PantherDude]

no

Simple & straight to the point there. :thumbsup:

[koolkatluke]

For the record I am NOT endorsing Beastson but...

Gross certainly was an all-pro. This year though he performed at a lower standard and got placed on IR after 9 games, his trade value is not what it would have been.

In 9 games Gross gave up approixmately 7 (0.77) sacks, 5 (0.55) hits and 11 (1.22) pressures, bracket numbers are per game values. Last season he only gave up approximately 4 (0.26) sacks, 9 (0.6) hits and 8 (0.53) pressures.

The top performing LT's this season are Joe Thomas (3 sacks, 5 hits, 7 pressures) Jake Long (4, 5, 8) and D'Brickashaw Ferguson (6, 3, 10) and each are part of dominant rushing offenses (Browns 10th, Miami 4th and Jets 1st). Whilst Jordan has had some great seasons, this certainly was not one of them. He was good, better than the vast majority, but no where near his standards. He was on course to record 12 sacks given up, 9 hits and 20 pressures, which is a shadow in comparison to what others have achieved.

Gross is what he is. A dominant run blocking OT. He is not a premier pass blocker, but he is not really needed to be. He is good, very good in fact at pass blocking but he is not elite. Considering the elite pass blockers also can run block just as effectively, I do not see him being valued at premier OT heights. Any team giving up a lot for a LT will likely want him to be darn good at pass blocking as well, otherwise the trade is not balanced.

Obviously a lot of this is my opinion and I am trying to use reasoning rather than stating people are wrong without any basis. My initial assessment could be wrong, considering I re-looked at the Peters trade. However GMs do not trade high draft picks for a contract which is high in value and the player will unlikely re-work. That makes them mortgage the future AND the present with the trade, that is the only point I was trying to make. If the new contract was not in place, then the draft picks would go up.

Just to re-establish. I do NOT endorse trading Gross. The idea is laughable and downright crazy, in fact trading him could actually cause an un-hinging of what the team has recently achieved. He really is that much of a leader and without him Wharton is our most experienced OL guarenteed coming back. This is also another reason he gets All-Pro recogontion.

b

So you place no blame on a bad QB who held on too the ball too long right it was all gross fault. Dude Gross is one of the better tackles in the league don't let Jakes bad play scew your opinoin.

[beastson]

Beaston seriously stop 1st I told you why not Otah he has problem in pass Protection and you are putting him against every teams best pass rusher if you put him LT. He is a mauler he needs too be on the RT spot too best show his talent. Not too mention the fact he has been injuried in both season he's play so he might not be as dependeable as Gross. 2nd Schwartz is at best a RT you put him at LT you better have 6-7 QB do you get the point.

What you are not getting is it takes 2 different skill sets to play LT or RT. You have too be nimble and quick too be a LT. You have too be mean and agressive too be a RT. Gross is our best Tackle plain and simple he can play both tackle spots and for most off his career has not been a injury concearn. You don't find that too often so when you do you do not trade it for a WR you can get a dime a dozen. Smith was a 3rd round pick.

Errr... you want to get into line specifics? Otah cant play LT, but people thought Gross could? Ok

And you think the idea of signing a free agent LT is absurd too right

Yea Smith was a 3rd round and didn't come around till his 3rd year. But its an higher possibility of them catching on quickly in the 1st than lower rounds

[chbright]

Beaston seriously stop 1st I told you why not Otah he has problem in pass Protection and you are putting him against every teams best pass rusher if you put him LT. He is a mauler he needs too be on the RT spot too best show his talent. Not too mention the fact he has been injuried in both season he's play so he might not be as dependeable as Gross. 2nd Schwartz is at best a RT you put him at LT you better have 6-7 QB do you get the point.

What you are not getting is it takes 2 different skill sets to play LT or RT. You have too be nimble and quick too be a LT. You have too be mean and agressive too be a RT. Gross is our best Tackle plain and simple he can play both tackle spots and for most off his career has not been a injury concearn. You don't find that too often so when you do you do not trade it for a WR you can get a dime a dozen. Smith was a 3rd round pick.

and yet gross played RT for a few years, and wharton played LT. there were legit concerns over gross becoming the permanant LT after we drafted Otah. it was widely believed gross is out of position at LT anyway, and that he is a better RT. at this point otah is a very good RT, but may not have the protection skills or quick feet to mirror speed rushers. he is a force in the running game though. that said the run game is schwartz's strength much like otah, so they both fit our teams mentality to have a mauling OL.

if wrs are a dime a dozen why is it we have not found one after smitty, and found alot more offensive linemen in the same time span (that said not on the left side)? rather get a proven WR via FA (the only 2 that have really worked are key and moose), and hope its a true #2 or #1.

i can see this for the cap reasons more than the d will/stewie trades which only gets us picks, no cap flexability.

[Azteca]

Jordan Gross is still one of the best and will be one of the best tackles in the league for years to come. this is crazy talk, nay this BLASPHEMY

[AKPantherFan]

:smilielol5: your joking riiight??????

[Udogg]

Just to re-establish. I do NOT endorse trading Gross. The idea is laughable and downright crazy, in fact trading him could actually cause an un-hinging of what the team has recently achieved. He really is that much of a leader and without him Wharton is our most experienced OL guarenteed coming back. This is also another reason he gets All-Pro recogontion.

Thank you. Even suggesting trading Gross is stupid. If anything this year has shown us again how Oline depth is imperative.

Plus you want to trade a proven LT for a possible 1st round draft pick WR???? STUPID, STUPID, STUPID. It's like Matt Millen and Isaih Thomas had a child.

[koolkatluke]

Errr... you want to get into line specifics? Otah cant play LT, but people thought Gross could? Ok

And you think the idea of signing a free agent LT is absurd too right

Yea Smith was a 3rd round and didn't come around till his 3rd year. But its an higher possibility of them catching on quickly in the 1st than lower rounds

Dude is this your 1st season watching Football? Gross is faster has better footwork this is why he can play LT. Otah is a mauler better for the RT last time telling you this.

Why sign a FA LT when you have 1 of the best in the league. It is absurd you are not going too sign a all pro LT most teams don't give them up. Plus you are not going to sign one better then Gross unless you Get Jake long or Ryan Clady not going too happen stupid idea.

Last if you knew anything about Football you would know it usely takes a WR 3 years too become a player. It is rare for a WR too become a player in his 1st or 2nd season. If you look at stat and History you would see most WR get a bump in numbers by their 3rd year. I'd rather get a wr in FA then the draft.

[OneBadassCat]

For the record I am NOT endorsing Beastson but...

Gross certainly was an all-pro. This year though he performed at a lower standard and got placed on IR after 9 games, his trade value is not what it would have been.

In 9 games Gross gave up approixmately 7 (0.77) sacks, 5 (0.55) hits and 11 (1.22) pressures, bracket numbers are per game values. Last season he only gave up approximately 4 (0.26) sacks, 9 (0.6) hits and 8 (0.53) pressures.

The top performing LT's this season are Joe Thomas (3 sacks, 5 hits, 7 pressures) Jake Long (4, 5, 8) and D'Brickashaw Ferguson (6, 3, 10) and each are part of dominant rushing offenses (Browns 10th, Miami 4th and Jets 1st). Whilst Jordan has had some great seasons, this certainly was not one of them. He was good, better than the vast majority, but no where near his standards. He was on course to record 12 sacks given up, 9 hits and 20 pressures, which is a shadow in comparison to what others have achieved.

Gross is what he is. A dominant run blocking OT. He is not a premier pass blocker, but he is not really needed to be. He is good, very good in fact at pass blocking but he is not elite. Considering the elite pass blockers also can run block just as effectively, I do not see him being valued at premier OT heights. Any team giving up a lot for a LT will likely want him to be darn good at pass blocking as well, otherwise the trade is not balanced.

Obviously a lot of this is my opinion and I am trying to use reasoning rather than stating people are wrong without any basis. My initial assessment could be wrong, considering I re-looked at the Peters trade. However GMs do not trade high draft picks for a contract which is high in value and the player will unlikely re-work. That makes them mortgage the future AND the present with the trade, that is the only point I was trying to make. If the new contract was not in place, then the draft picks would go up.

Just to re-establish. I do NOT endorse trading Gross. The idea is laughable and downright crazy, in fact trading him could actually cause an un-hinging of what the team has recently achieved. He really is that much of a leader and without him Wharton is our most experienced OL guarenteed coming back. This is also another reason he gets All-Pro recogontion.

Alot of that has to do with Jake blowing ass.

[beastson]

Dude is this your 1st season watching Football? Gross is faster has better footwork this is why he can play LT. Otah is a mauler better for the RT last time telling you this.

Why sign a FA LT when you have 1 of the best in the league. It is absurd you are not going too sign a all pro LT most teams don't give them up. Plus you are not going to sign one better then Gross unless you Get Jake long or Ryan Clady not going too happen stupid idea.

Last if you knew anything about Football you would know it usely takes a WR 3 years too become a player. It is rare for a WR too become a player in his 1st or 2nd season. If you look at stat and History you would see most WR get a bump in numbers by their 3rd year. I'd rather get a wr in FA then the draft.

Dude dont tell me that people wasn't questioning if Gross could play LT. You may have thought that, but dont say there wasn't doubts. He got over those doubts too

We have no receivers. Soon Otah will be an all-pro RT. You dont have to have an all-pro LT to win games. Come on dude

Lastly, please dont make me list first rounders in the NFL that came out playing out their mind. No they wasn't the best in the league, but they showed promise of being the best

You know Smith isn't getting any younger, and we need to look for a franchise WR, and you're banking on a 2nd/3rd rounder to be that. Thats a dumb idea. Anytime Smith says he's tired of being number 1, he can just play slot. Its time to start looking, and not in the 3rd round nor in free agency with no money

[Peppers90 NC]

The idea of this trade is quite funny, but what is even funnier is knowing how Beaston would expect this whole process to take place. Hmmm, let's se here, does the GM start calling teams HE thinks could use a franchis LT that was just signed to a very large 6 year mega deal while taking an absurd cap hit all while not trying to tip his hand we are in search of a start wr that 75% of the time takes 2 to 3 years to be very productive in a run-first offense with instability at the QB position(although I am believing in Moore). Now, the GM keeping these things in mind has to sign one of the FA LT's hoping they sign here for less than what Gross made when adding in the cap hit AND hoping not lose talent b/c we are a run first team but looking for depth at WR maybe DT or a QB. And what do I the GM do with Peppers? Do I have a firm max offer or do I franchise and keep or trade or what but back to Gross, I called a few bad teams but some of those teams already have a franchise LT like KC and Clev, maybe I can trick the Raiders into throwing in Asomugah with a first round pick or second, whichever Gross is worth I'm not sure as a GM what the top 3 highest paid LT is worth but I know I want to trade him. So I called 6 teams who I think lack at LT in my opinion b/c there has been no team to call me with this offer b/c they assumed I'm not this dumb to consider it but I am... whew I'm outta breath.

[koolkatluke]

Dude dont tell me that people wasn't questioning if Gross could play LT. You may have thought that, but dont say there wasn't doubts. He got over those doubts too

We have no receivers. Soon Otah will be an all-pro RT. You dont have to have an all-pro LT to win games. Come on dude

Lastly, please dont make me list first rounders in the NFL that came out playing out their mind. No they wasn't the best in the league, but they showed promise of being the best

You know Smith isn't getting any younger, and we need to look for a franchise WR, and you're banking on a 2nd/3rd rounder to be that. Thats a dumb idea. Anytime Smith says he's tired of being number 1, he can just play slot. Its time to start looking, and not in the 3rd round nor in free agency with no money

The question was why wasn't he their sooner.

Again RT and LT not the same skill set.

I bet you I can list more WR who got better in their 3rd year then you can name WR who where great from the start. Plus more 1rd WR bust and better late round WR.

[beastson]

Uh alot of the best receivers in the league was first round picks. There's a higher probability that a 1st round WR will do better than a later round one. Thats a fact. Drafting a later one and expecting him to be better than a first is uh... not a good idea

Yall got yall opinion, I got mine. Let me leave this though

If Andre Johnson(the best WR. in the league, I love Smith, but he now is) was coming out of the draft now, and I said trade Gross draft Johnson. I hope yall realize yall would be saying no to that. Moss fits it even better cause he was a late first round pick, not early like Johnson. No player should be untouchable unless they're unstoppable pretty much. Sometimes you do have to make sacrifices, there is nothing wrong with that