Hurney almost got us Herbert

[Ricky Spanish]

3 minutes ago, t96 said:

All those guys just had such short peaks/shelf lives. And to your point they were just "solid" not anything special. Gettleman was better at depth and pieces to fill in a roster but he couldn't get us a superstar or anything near it to save his life outside of McCaffrey. KK may have come closer if he didn't only have 1 good season. 

Hurney was definitely very hit or miss but his hits actually turned out to be superstars and he hit consistently in round 1 while still having some hits outside of round 1, both in terms of legit talent and depth. Non-1st rounders by Hurney: Foster, Witherspoon, R Manning, Wharton, Evan Mathis, James Anderson, Kalil, Charles Johnson, Gary Barnidge, Munnerlyn, LaFell (better than any DG wideout), Hardy, Norman, Donte Jackson, Chinn, YGM (jury out). Several guys way better than any by DG and plenty of others who were solid like DG's "hits." 

DG had less useless busts but no stars, both had some solid players. Which was better outside of the 1st round depends a bit on what the state of the team is -- DG's getting solid players was better while we had the elite core we had his entire tenure as GM here but that elite core was built by Hurney. As we saw with DG in NY he couldn't build any elite talent from scratch. Hurney's drafting would be much better for a team that just needs a talented core to start with and build around. 

Kind of a pointless argument as both are out of the league as GMs and neither was a good GM overall in the end. I'd gladly take either back over Fitts and any other Tepper trash though

Very true all around, no arguments here. 

I will say though, Hurney was consistently drafting in the top half of the rounds where there is generally better/more talent, whereas Gettleman was consistently drafting in the back half of the rounds when there is generally less talent. Hurney still managed to find good later first round talent in Gamble and Beason.

Honestly if we could have DBZ fusion'd these two together we'd have a really really good GM, instead we have Paint chip Fitt. 

[klumme]

Hurney was bad. Gettleman was bad and Fitterer is bad.

That is why we as a franchise sucks.

[hepcat]

1 hour ago, Panthering said:

Source? Or just made up? We won a crucial matchup vs Washington late in the season didn't we that put us one spot behind the Chargers. That's sick. 

Y’all got the years mixed up on this one. Herbert was drafted in the 2020 draft. Panthers won that meaningless Washington game in 2020 that dropped them from 3 to 8 in the 2021 draft, and they got Jaycee Horn as a prize. Would have likely ended up with Trey Lance in the alternative universe where they lost that game. 

Edited October 2, 2023 by hepcat

[Khyber53]

All I know is that there's been a massive turd midfield for the past half decade. It doesn't matter who laid it there, it needs to be cleaned up.

 

[OneBadCat]

1 hour ago, DeAngelo Beason said:

I've been scolding this forum for years for constantly pissing and moaning about our GMs.  Hate to break it to you, but the mess we are in right now is not on Fitterer.  I think he's done a wonderful job of building a very competitive roster talent wise.

Tepper blew it with the Bryce Young pick.  Simple as that.  Dude is Jerry Jones 2.0

I tend to agree. Fitt does the best job he can to support  his coaches philosophy. 

[t96]

14 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

Very true all around, no arguments here. 

I will say though, Hurney was consistently drafting in the top half of the rounds where there is generally better/more talent, whereas Gettleman was consistently drafting in the back half of the rounds when there is generally less talent. Hurney still managed to find good later first round talent in Gamble and Beason.

Honestly if we could have DBZ fusion'd these two together we'd have a really really good GM, instead we have Paint chip Fitt. 

Yeah that's a very noteworthy point as Hurney definitely had generally much higher picks than DG. But he still had some later ones as you mentioned Gamble, Beason but also DJ, Burns, Otah, DeAngelo so it's not like he absolutely needed them to be higher picks. And we still do see a ton of top 10-15 picks bust. Fitts has had the best draft positions of any of the 3 so far and easily done the least with the most...

[DJ feed me moore]

I feel like such a dumb asshole for being a hurney/rivera hater. What I wouldn't give just to be mediocre again.

[tukafan21]

I don't think Herbert becomes the player he is right now if he's drafted by a Rhule run team.

There were a lot of question marks on Herbert, some of which are still out there in terms of his ability to read defenses.

Put him under Rhule and there is a chance he's a bust in the end, so much of a QB's success comes down to their early coaching in the NFL.

[NorthTryon]

2 hours ago, t96 said:

Hurney wanted us to trade up for Herbert, which was in line with what our scouts wanted. Rhule and Tepper said no, ultimately these types of disagreements led to Hurney's ouster a couple years later and Fitts being hired. I never in a million fuging years thought I'd see the day where I'd say this, but I truly miss Hurney. It's gotten that bad that what looked like the worst mistake of Tepper's career as owner (keeping Hurney) may honestly be his least bad move so far. At the very least Hurney NEVER missed on a 1st round pick, the worst probably being Otah who was a stud just had injuries derail his career. Meanwhile DG and Fitts can't pick a halfway decent player in the 1st round to save their lives.

 

I believe Hurney had some great qualities as you can see in his protege in Buffalo. The thing is Beane took the best and eliminated the other stuff like loyalty to declining players and negotiating against yourself in free agency. Also, Brandon will go and get a difference making player if his team is in need mid season. Lastly, there isn't a parade of players to IR every year and no kicking the can down the road extensions! 

[RumHam]

3 hours ago, t96 said:

Hurney wanted us to trade up for Herbert, which was in line with what our scouts wanted. Rhule and Tepper said no, ultimately these types of disagreements led to Hurney's ouster a couple years later and Fitts being hired. I never in a million fuging years thought I'd see the day where I'd say this, but I truly miss Hurney. It's gotten that bad that what looked like the worst mistake of Tepper's career as owner (keeping Hurney) may honestly be his least bad move so far. At the very least Hurney NEVER missed on a 1st round pick, the worst probably being Otah who was a stud just had injuries derail his career. Meanwhile DG and Fitts can't pick a halfway decent player in the 1st round to save their lives.

 

The red flag has been here in front of everyone. Nobody wants to work for Tepper no matter the money he throws at him. GM's, coordinators, coaching candidates, and you damn sure know players, don't want to come here and there's a common denomination. Maybe Charlotte is too boring? I doubt that, money talks because guess what, Buffalo has a damn team. So, point me where the finger is aiming. People at least respected Richardson to a degree. Not a damn soul seems to respect Tepper.

Also, Frank Rhule said it in his presser today. Mr. Tepper doesn't want that. There you go. 

Edited October 2, 2023 by RumHam

[Toomers]

1 hour ago, t96 said:

All those guys just had such short peaks/shelf lives. And to your point they were just "solid" not anything special. Gettleman was better at depth and pieces to fill in a roster but he couldn't get us a superstar or anything near it to save his life outside of McCaffrey. KK may have come closer if he didn't only have 1 good season. 

Hurney was definitely very hit or miss but his hits actually turned out to be superstars and he hit consistently in round 1 while still having some hits outside of round 1, both in terms of legit talent and depth. Non-1st rounders by Hurney: Foster, Witherspoon, R Manning, Wharton, Evan Mathis, James Anderson, Kalil, Charles Johnson, Gary Barnidge, Munnerlyn, LaFell (better than any DG wideout), Hardy, Norman, Donte Jackson, Chinn, YGM (jury out). Several guys way better than any by DG and plenty of others who were solid like DG's "hits." 

DG had less useless busts but no stars, both had some solid players. Which was better outside of the 1st round depends a bit on what the state of the team is -- DG's getting solid players was better while we had the elite core we had his entire tenure as GM here but that elite core was built by Hurney. As we saw with DG in NY he couldn't build any elite talent from scratch. Hurney's drafting would be much better for a team that just needs a talented core to start with and build around. 

Kind of a pointless argument as both are out of the league as GMs and neither was a good GM overall in the end. I'd gladly take either back over Fitts and any other Tepper trash though

What was the record of this “core” before DG? That same core was the worst team in the NFL minus Cam and Luke. Then Rivera made the decision to take Cam. 6-10. Then add Luke. 7-9.  Then add those “non-elite” DL and Luke is DPOY. 
 

   The only OL or DL that made it to the Super Bowl were Kalil and CJ(at a 20M cap hit for a player that wasn’t starting half the time).  Norwell(All-pro), Turner(All-pro), Short(All-pro). None of the WRs. One DB(Norman) who benefitted from that DL. 

 And you want to claim some of those non firsts are good picks. Let’s judge them by comparison. Considering also this is 13 drafts against 5. 
 

 If Manning is good then Kony Ealy and Worley are too. Evan Mathis…lol. Daryl Williams puts him to shame as a Panther. Unless Hurney gets credit for sticking the needle in his ass after his career was about over. Barnidge had 18 receptions in 4-5 years.  LaFell has similar numbers to Funchess and KB had more receiving yards in 20 less games. Samuel was every bit as good too. By your criteria, almost every pick DG made was good. Which it most certainly was not. KB brought back a 3rd and made 9.2M the year after leaving CAR. Butler even got 2/16M. Funchess 1/10M. Star 5/50M. So someone thought they had value with the Panthers. Of Hurneys 70+ picks after the first round, there’s not even 13 solid guys to speak of. 

Bottom line.

Hurney: 98-110 13 years. 3 winning seasons. 3 playoff appearances 

Gettleman: 50-29-1 5 years. 3 winning seasons. 4 playoff appearances 

Hurney gave the fans shirts to buy. Gettleman gave the fans the most successful run in team history. 

 

[SmokinwithWilly]

11 minutes ago, Toomers said:

What was the record of this “core” before DG? That same core was the worst team in the NFL minus Cam and Luke. Then Rivera made the decision to take Cam. 6-10. Then add Luke. 7-9.  Then add those “non-elite” DL and Luke is DPOY. 
 

   The only OL or DL that made it to the Super Bowl were Kalil and CJ(at a 20M cap hit for a player that wasn’t starting half the time).  Norwell(All-pro), Turner(All-pro), Short(All-pro). None of the WRs. One DB(Norman) who benefitted from that DL. 

 And you want to claim some of those non firsts are good picks. Let’s judge them by comparison. Considering also this is 13 drafts against 5. 
 

 If Manning is good then Kony Ealy and Worley are too. Evan Mathis…lol. Daryl Williams puts him to shame as a Panther. Unless Hurney gets credit for sticking the needle in his ass after his career was about over. Barnidge had 18 receptions in 4-5 years.  LaFell has similar numbers to Funchess and KB had more receiving yards in 20 less games. Samuel was every bit as good too. By your criteria, almost every pick DG made was good. Which it most certainly was not. KB brought back a 3rd and made 9.2M the year after leaving CAR. Butler even got 2/16M. Funchess 1/10M. Star 5/50M. So someone thought they had value with the Panthers. Of Hurneys 70+ picks after the first round, there’s not even 13 solid guys to speak of. 

Bottom line.

Hurney: 98-110 13 years. 3 winning seasons. 3 playoff appearances 

Gettleman: 50-29-1 5 years. 3 winning seasons. 4 playoff appearances 

Hurney gave the fans shirts to buy. Gettleman gave the fans the most successful run in team history. 

 

Gettleman also had to clean up the cap mess Hurney created. We were scraping the bottom of the barrel at some positions because that's all we could afford. 

[t96]

lol I thought I used to be a huge DG fanboy ^^^^ woof

[bandu]

2 hours ago, Castavar said:

I have no doubt in my mind that if Tepper and Fitterer were here in 2011, they would have passed on Cam and chose Blaine Gabbert.

lol sounds about right