Hurney almost got us Herbert

[Waldo]

And Tepper almost netted Watson but the Browns bit that bullet. What if is a bad game to play with this team.

[Cpt slay a ho]

Hurney was an “ok” gm, that’s how bad his predecessor have been, that we’d take ok gming over this slop we’ve been dealing with 

[CPF4LIFE]

I said the other day for as much heat as hurney gets its crazy we are having to trade all the good players he drafted when he came back just to improve this team. And fitt is doing a good job of fumbling every chance. 

[Hogan]

25 minutes ago, DeAngelo Beason said:

I've been scolding this forum for years for constantly pissing and moaning about our GMs.  Hate to break it to you, but the mess we are in right now is not on Fitterer.  I think he's done a wonderful job of building a very competitive roster talent wise.

Tepper blew it with the Bryce Young pick.  Simple as that.  Dude is Jerry Jones 2.0

Jones was smart enough to realize, initially, he needed a football guy and he got Jimmy Johnson. And won three Super Bowls. That kind of success will NEVER happen with Tepper. Tepper wouldn't know a football guy if he crawled up his leg and bit him on his d***.

[t96]

23 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

Bruh, Getts drafted Starr, Shaq and CMC, two were decent to good and the other is elite. He may have been an ass but we had the most success while he was GM (3 winning records,4 playoffs in 5 seasons)

Hurney is the GOATed first round drafter though. I will not argue that. It's everything else he sucked at and why we only had 3 winning seasons when he was the GM (out of 15).

I have no defense for Fitts at the moment.

So Hurney was the best at drafting top level talent in the first round while putting together overall dogshit rosters, Gettleman drafted semi-ok but put together solid rosters, but was a bonafide asshole, and then we have Scott Fitterer in the corner eating paint chips.

I was a well known DG defender for a while there so I get where you're coming from, he did a great job at filling in the depth deficiencies on the roster that Hurney left and fixing some of the cap issues, but he did a horrible job of adding new legit franchise talent. Our most successful run was with DG and Ron from 2013-2017 but that entire core consisted of players that DG inherited from Hurney. A Hurney/DG combo where they could put their egos aside and both focus on their strengths would be incredible, but DG's flaws ultimately more than outweighed his strengths.

Specifically regarding DG's 1st rounders, he had 2 of the worst busts you'll see in Butler and Benjamin. Star was solid but a little bit underwhelming for a top 14 pick and didn't last past his rookie contract. Shaq also solid but never a game breaker and took a while to go from mediocre to solid starter, that really hurt us 2015-2017 when we could've used more contribution from that year's 1st round pick. McCaffrey I'll obviously give him but taking a RB top 10 should be a hit, and we weren't really in a position where taking a RB made much sense which hindsight supports with the way it played out.

And ultimately DG's track record after the 1st round wound up being pretty damn terrible, easily as bad as Hurney's, if not worse. DG was better with contracts, free agency singings (save for Matt Kalil) and navigating the cap but otherwise he sucked.

Think about the core players Hurney brought us over the years: Cam, Luke, TD, Olsen, Kalil, Gross, Peppers, Gamble, etc. The only player DG ever brought in that came close to any of those guys was McCaffrey and he came at a time where that position had become so devalued that his impact couldn't touch those other guys'. Fitterer hasn't brought in a single player that comes close to any of those guys yet. Our best younger players right now (Burns, Brown, Chinn) even came from Hurney.

Which further goes to show how embarrassing Tepper is as an owner since Hurney was objectively a bad GM overall in both stints, and yet he's arguably been the brightest spot of Tep's tenure as owner so far.

[App Panther]

Hurney probaly kept us relevant for many years. He drafted stars and depth finds weren't bad. As other have said, after the 1st round it was like he didn't do any research. 

[Castavar]

I have no doubt in my mind that if Tepper and Fitterer were here in 2011, they would have passed on Cam and chose Blaine Gabbert.

[t96]

43 minutes ago, Panthering said:

Source? Or just made up? We won a crucial matchup vs Washington late in the season didn't we that put us one spot behind the Chargers. That's sick. 

I don't have a source but it was posted/reported here that draft year and Hurney was all over the Oregon pro day. Hurney's a classy dude and hasn't said anything since but I'm pretty confident in this one. Even aside from Herbert, Hurney has been the best thing this organization has had since Tepper took over and that's just pitiful

[WhoKnows]

40 minutes ago, therealmjl said:

I know this has been tossed around for years here but never saw where it was actually reported.

During COVID a lot of scouts didn’t travel much. He made it to their pro-day and since then he supposedly wanted to trade up. There were teams like the Lions and Giants whose picks were announced as available. If he wanted to trade up and get Herbert, he could have pretty easily.

We needed a QB badly with Cam gone so if he truly loved Herbert, he’d have been on the team.

[t96]

5 minutes ago, WhoKnows said:

We needed a QB badly with Cam gone so if he truly loved Herbert, he’d have been on the team.

Rhule had final say and was the fresh new hire by Tepper while Hurney's influence had already waned (fired later that year anyways), Hurney could've truly loved Herbert and wanted to trade whatever it took to move up to get him and it wouldn't have mattered if Rhule (and by extension Tepper) wouldn't sign off.

[Ricky Spanish]

14 minutes ago, t96 said:

I was a well known DG defender for a while there so I get where you're coming from, he did a great job at filling in the depth deficiencies on the roster that Hurney left and fixing some of the cap issues, but he did a horrible job of adding new legit franchise talent. Our most successful run was with DG and Ron from 2013-2017 but that entire core consisted of players that DG inherited from Hurney. A Hurney/DG combo where they could put their egos aside and both focus on their strengths would be incredible, but DG's flaws ultimately more than outweighed his strengths.

Specifically regarding DG's 1st rounders, he had 2 of the worst busts you'll see in Butler and Benjamin. Star was solid but a little bit underwhelming for a top 14 pick and didn't last past his rookie contract. Shaq also solid but never a game breaker and took a while to go from mediocre to solid starter, that really hurt us 2015-2017 when we could've used more contribution from that year's 1st round pick. McCaffrey I'll obviously give him but taking a RB top 10 should be a hit, and we weren't really in a position where taking a RB made much sense which hindsight supports with the way it played out.

And ultimately DG's track record after the 1st round wound up being pretty damn terrible, easily as bad as Hurney's, if not worse. DG was better with contracts, free agency singings (save for Matt Kalil) and navigating the cap but otherwise he sucked.

Think about the core players Hurney brought us over the years: Cam, Luke, TD, Olsen, Kalil, Gross, Peppers, Gamble, etc. The only player DG ever brought in that came close to any of those guys was McCaffrey and he came at a time where that position had become so devalued that his impact couldn't touch those other guys'. Fitterer hasn't brought in a single player that comes close to any of those guys yet. Our best younger players right now (Burns, Brown, Chinn) even came from Hurney.

Which further goes to show how embarrassing Tepper is as an owner since Hurney was objectively a bad GM overall in both stints, and yet he's arguably been the brightest spot of Tep's tenure as owner so far.

You're discrediting Gett's getting us Short, Bradberry, Moton, Turner, and Norwell, as well as finding solid depth/ST guys like AJ Klein, Tre Boston, Daryl Williams, and Butker. All were in the 2nd round or later.

Gettleman wasn't as bad as people remember. In fact he probably drafted just as many overall "Solid" guys in 5 years as Hurney did in 15 years. So yes, Hurney gave us our best and brightest but he also gave us our worst and shittiest. It was feast or famine with Hurney, you either got a superstar or a guy who was out of the league within 3 years.*

*This is post Otah trade mind you. Before the '08 draft I dare say Hurney was a GOOD GM, however the game moved past him and he kept trying to build mid 90s rosters built to run and stop the run in an age where passing was becoming king.

[WhoKnows]

2 minutes ago, t96 said:

I don't have a source but it was posted/reported here that draft year and Hurney was all over the Oregon pro day. Hurney's a classy dude and hasn't said anything since but I'm pretty confident in this one. Even aside from Herbert, Hurney has been the best thing this organization has had since Tepper took over and that's just pitiful

Don’t forget that COVID was causing a lot of NFL folks to not travel. Seattle and NYC were the hot beds. Because Marty was there and a lot of teams were not, it made it seem like he was the most interested. Again, it would have been a simple trade to make to get him since it was pretty obvious that Tua and Herbert were going to Miami and the Chargers. The Chargers sure didn’t act like they were scared that we’d move up and Detroit was more than ready to deal.

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2020/04/24/detroit-lions-nfl-draft-trade-down-jeff-okudah-bob-quinn/3017054001/

See the last line: No one else was interested in paying the cost to come up.

If Hurney loved Herbert like he loved Greg Little, he would have moved up to 3. The Lions knew they could drop a few and still get Okudah. Giants wanted a tackle and Miami/Chargers were QB. The Lions weren’t looking for a bounty just some value so again, this is a nice story, but I don’t believe that Hurney truly wanted to trade up.

[WhoKnows]

2 minutes ago, t96 said:

Rhule had final say and was the fresh new hire by Tepper while Hurney's influence had already waned (fired later that year anyways), Hurney could've truly loved Herbert and wanted to trade whatever it took to move up to get him and it wouldn't have mattered if Rhule (and by extension Tepper) wouldn't sign off.

See the article I posted, doesn’t seem like he was even working on a deal. Rhule is gone as is Hurney, but I’m not going to just add a feather in Hurney’s cap. There was no mention we were even interested and Rhule had the final say but Hurney sure didn’t convince him or Tepper. Tepper was all over Fields and Young so you don’t think proposing Herbert wasn’t even an option? Rhule sure didn’t tell Hurney he couldn’t go to Oregon’s pro-day.

[t96]

1 minute ago, Ricky Spanish said:

You're discrediting Gett's getting us Short, Bradberry, Moton, Turner, and Norwell, as well as finding solid depth/ST guys like AJ Klein, Tre Boston, Daryl Williams, and Butker. All were in the 2nd round or later.

Gettleman wasn't as bad as people remember. In fact he probably drafted just as many overall "Solid" guys in 5 years as Hurney did in 15 years. So yes, Hurney gave us our best and brightest but he also gave us our worst and shittiest. It was feast or famine with Hurney, you either got a superstar or a guy who was out of the league within 3 years.*

*This is post Otah trade mind you. Before the '08 draft I dare say Hurney was a GOOD GM, however the game moved past him and he kept trying to build mid 90s rosters built to run and stop the run in an age where passing was becoming king.

All those guys just had such short peaks/shelf lives. And to your point they were just "solid" not anything special. Gettleman was better at depth and pieces to fill in a roster but he couldn't get us a superstar or anything near it to save his life outside of McCaffrey. KK may have come closer if he didn't only have 1 good season. 

Hurney was definitely very hit or miss but his hits actually turned out to be superstars and he hit consistently in round 1 while still having some hits outside of round 1, both in terms of legit talent and depth. Non-1st rounders by Hurney: Foster, Witherspoon, R Manning, Wharton, Evan Mathis, James Anderson, Kalil, Charles Johnson, Gary Barnidge, Munnerlyn, LaFell (better than any DG wideout), Hardy, Norman, Donte Jackson, Chinn, YGM (jury out). Several guys way better than any by DG and plenty of others who were solid like DG's "hits." 

DG had less useless busts but no stars, both had some solid players. Which was better outside of the 1st round depends a bit on what the state of the team is -- DG's getting solid players was better while we had the elite core we had his entire tenure as GM here but that elite core was built by Hurney. As we saw with DG in NY he couldn't build any elite talent from scratch. Hurney's drafting would be much better for a team that just needs a talented core to start with and build around. 

Kind of a pointless argument as both are out of the league as GMs and neither was a good GM overall in the end. I'd gladly take either back over Fitts and any other Tepper trash though