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What makes fox a good coach

pantherpain

By pantherpain,
in Carolina Panthers

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pantherpain Apprentice

pantherpain

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I read a lot post on here and other sites that say... I like Fox He's a good coach, but it end's there. Yes some say he took us to the super bowl and to a another conference championship game. But how much credit should he really get?

Say Smitty grabs a jump ball from 3 other defender's and sprint's into the end zone, was that because of a Fox designed play (call) or Smitty's willpower?

Or Dwill runs up the middle gets stuffed bounces it out, spins, stiff arms his way to 30 yards. Fox or Dwill? You get the point.

And then there's the questionable thing's at key moments of a game that happen. Bad calls by reff's or coaches of the other team that just gave us games. And yes it does go both way's...But I don't think were in the super bowl with out these thing's.

But what is it that Fox does on sunday that makes him so good? And I don't mean some rah rah hugs and kisses I love you guys speech that motivates his players. Thats just bs, these guys will show up and play for lot's of different reasons... Their job, pride, money, they hate to lose, contract incentives, hell they may even have side bets with other players.

So what does he do on sunday that makes him a good (great) coach?

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Rhys Newbie

Rhys

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So nothing clearcut just the assumption that he must have done something we didn't see. Not a great endorsement of Fox.

There's no one thing you can point to and say, he is a good coach. There's no perfect, tangible evidence, no QB rating for a coach. A HC has his hands in a hell of a lot of things, game plans, player improvement, playbook, play calling, drafting, contracts, discipline, player respect, practice, schedules, time management, media relations, etc.

When you say a coach is a "good coach", you're making a generalization based on everything he has done.

The closet you can come to a single stat is their win %, which doesn't take into account strength of schedule, injuries, how close the games were etc.

-Fox - (.551-Panthers) Lowest(7-9) Highest(12-4)

-Belichick - (.619-All) (.450-Browns) (.704-Patriots) Lowest(5-11) Highest(16-0)

-Reid - (.616-Eagles) Lowest(5-11) Highest(13-3)

-Childress - (.573-Vikings) Lowest(6-10) Highest(11-3)

-Dungy - (.668-All) (.556-Bucs) (.759-Colts) Lowest(6-10) Highest(14-2)

-Cowher - (.623-Steelers) Lowest(6-10) Highest(15-1)

Compared to the best in recent years? No, he's not as good on paper. He hasn't had the experience of Belichick, Dungy, Reid, or Cowher. His lowest record though is 7-9, and there's something to be said for that. Everyone hates it, but honestly it's pretty damn good in the NFL.

I think mainly people are tired of Fox, they're tired of his style, the way he talks to the media, his close to average win percentage, and other things. I'm willing to give him another year, apparently most everyone else isn't. They think Cowher will descend upon the team and we'll instantly be winning NFC championship trophies and Vince Lombardis year in and year out. Anyways, it's a moot point in light of recent news.

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pantherpain Apprentice

pantherpain

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There's no one thing you can point to and say, he is a good coach. There's no perfect, tangible evidence, no QB rating for a coach. A HC has his hands in a hell of a lot of things, game plans, player improvement, playbook, play calling, drafting, contracts, discipline, player respect, practice, schedules, time management, media relations, etc.

When you say a coach is a "good coach", you're making a generalization based on everything he has done.

The closet you can come to a single stat is their win %, which doesn't take into account strength of schedule, injuries, how close the games were etc.

-Fox - (.551-Panthers) Lowest(7-9) Highest(12-4)

-Belichick - (.619-All) (.450-Browns) (.704-Patriots) Lowest(5-11) Highest(16-0)

-Reid - (.616-Eagles) Lowest(5-11) Highest(13-3)

-Childress - (.573-Vikings) Lowest(6-10) Highest(11-3)

-Dungy - (.668-All) (.556-Bucs) (.759-Colts) Lowest(6-10) Highest(14-2)

-Cowher - (.623-Steelers) Lowest(6-10) Highest(15-1)

Compared to the best in recent years? No, he's not as good on paper. He hasn't had the experience of Belichick, Dungy, Reid, or Cowher. His lowest record though is 7-9, and there's something to be said for that. Everyone hates it, but honestly it's pretty damn good in the NFL.

I think mainly people are tired of Fox, they're tired of his style, the way he talks to the media, his close to average win percentage, and other things. I'm willing to give him another year, apparently most everyone else isn't. They think Cowher will descend upon the team and we'll instantly be winning NFC championship trophies and Vince Lombardis year in and year out. Anyways, it's a moot point in light of recent news.

I'm talking about game time adjustment's , clock management , handling of player during the game . What does he do on sunday that makes him good.

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TANTRIC-NINJA Collaborator

TANTRIC-NINJA

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I'm talking about game time adjustment's , clock management , handling of player during the game . What does he do on sunday that makes him good.

He keeps us from playing "The Devil's Football" AKA: The Saints style of Football...or just Mike Shannahan.

Game plan adjustments are slow if any and clock management is a joke.....but hes real good..

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DrunkenCat Newbie

DrunkenCat

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Well, I'm a glass is half full type of guy so I'm not that hell bent on chasing Fox out of town. If you tell me that my team and coach is at worse 7-9 for a decade then sign me up. After going through the 1-15 season, being in the playoff hunt every year is good enough for me.

I get frustrated just like everybody with Fox's conservative nature, but he seems to put competitive teams on the field year in and year out. I know we are not in the playoffs every year, but there are only a handful of teams that can say that.

Yea, I wish we had the success of the Patriots, Eagles, Steelers...etc, but I'm also glad I'm not sucking hind *** every year like the Raiders, Bills, Browns, Lions....etc.

There is no such thing as a perfect coach. Be careful on wanting John Fox gone because the next George Siefert is right around the corner.

I know some NC State fans that might like to have Herb back and his yearly trips to the dance and sweet 16...despite not being able to the beat the heels.

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guyinchesapeake Newbie

guyinchesapeake

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As is said: "to everything, there is a season". For coaches in football, even the successful ones, their time is limited. Lombardi knew he wouldn't have any more of the kind of success that was expected of his teams in GB after 1967, that group had grown old together. Noll had a remarkable run in Pittsburg, but fans were calling for his head for quite awhile before the change was made. Same with Shula and Landry. A coach may be great for awhile, and still be able to pull one out of his shorts at any given time, but it becomes apparent eventually that the team isn't responding as they had before. That's what has happened now. The core of this team (Jake, Smitty, Moose, Hoover, Pep, Kasey, and maybe a few others) have been together and gone as far as they're going to under the kind of approach Fox advocates and prepares for.

Fox reminds me a lot of a coach the University of VA had for their basketball team named Terry Holland. Holland was almost a miracle worker when he had little talent to work with, he could get his guys to do amazing things (the Wally Walker led team that won the 1976 ACC tourny comes to mind). but when he had talent, and the expectations that comes with that, he always came up short (the Ralph Sampson years). I see much of that in Fox.

I think this team needs a new direction that only a new coach can bring, especially while there is still a good team to build around. I like Fox, a lot, and acknowledge that he has been the architect of most of the success this team has experienced. But that time has passed. I could end up being proved wrong, but I'll wager with anyone that I won't be..

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pantherpain Apprentice

pantherpain

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Please give us an example of a coach you consider to be good (great) and how he proves his status on Sundays.

I don't know, good question.... well off the top of my head any coach that would have taken Jake out before he destroyed the team for starters.

But as far as names go I could give you top coaches in the nfl an be done with it, I don't look at other team's and coaches with the same critical eye as I do with the panther's to give an honest answer.

I do like Mike Holmgren for what it's worth.

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