NFL executives give Bryce Young early grade

[CPF4LIFE]

7 minutes ago, Cary Kollins said:

Why was Tom Brady better than every player taken in the prior five rounds?

Name a more lightning in the bottle player than tom brady in nfl history? You cant. And Saying that Tank Dell is a number 1 receiver on another team after 3 games in his career is the extreme hypocritical over exaggeration tactics thats plaquing this place right now. 

[MasterAwesome]

22 minutes ago, Varking said:

Tank Dell was drafted in the 3rd. We drafted a WR in the 2nd. Why isn’t our guy better?

What a weird argument...

Bryce Young was drafted 1st, CJ Stroud was drafted 2nd.  Checkmate!  Bryce > CJ

[Cary Kollins]

1 minute ago, MasterAwesome said:

What a weird argument...

Bryce Young was drafted 1st, CJ Stroud was drafted 2nd.  Checkmate!  Bryce > CJ

lol some of this stuff is beyond comprehension 

[frankw]

2 hours ago, MasterAwesome said:

I don't think it makes sense to use the collective "we" because this all seems to boil down to what your personal expectations were for Bryce.  If you are using Cam's rookie season as the bar and expected him to be a star from Week 1, then of course you're disappointed.  If you expected he'd need some time to transition, then you're still calm and hopeful.  I'm willing to be patient...we're not a playoff team anyways, certainly not with our piling injuries to key players.  I don't need him to "suddenly click", I need (or at least expect) to see incremental improvement and for him to get more and more comfortable over the course of the season.  I would say we certainly did see improvement from Week 1 to Week 2.  It wasn't a great Week 2 performance by any stretch of the imagination, but it was a baby step in the right direction and that's OK by me.

To be clear I expected a likely losing season this year and I also expected the usual rookie gaffes from Bryce like turning the ball over trying to force things. I was fine with that knowing we still had an at least halfway decent oline and group of weapons and a very solid staff with years of accumulative knowledge around him to develop with in the meantime. Where this all got off course in my view is when we saw the struggles in preseason that have since translated to the regular season and have shown little signs of moving in the right direction. It's definitely something that gives me familiar concern that I saw in both our previous coaching regimes. When pairing this with what we gave up in the trade it makes for even higher stakes. I just want this team to get to playing intelligent and better coached football because that hasn't happened much at all. Hopefully Bryce plays this weekend looks better doing so and we can begin to shift the tide back to something resembling respectable Panthers football.

[MasterAwesome]

2 hours ago, Varking said:

Yes, going into the season the Panthers looked to have more talent and a significantly more promising offense than the Houston Texans. 

What is the relevance of what our situations looked like "going into the season" when we're heading into Week 4 and actually have empirical evidence to evaluate?  Going into the season, Icky was our stalwart LT...now he's unfortunately resembling more of a turnstile.  Which impression do you think is more relevant to current day?  Going into the season, we had a pretty strong ILB duo.  Now Shaq and Frankie are both injured.  Going into the season, Chuba was considered a joke on these boards and most people didn't even want him on the roster.  Now people are saying he's our best RB and want him to get more carries over Miles.  One more, and I know you'll love this one: going into the season, Bryce was considered the most "pro ready" QB with the easiest transition.  Now going into Week 4, he has struggled more than either Stroud or Richardson.  Do we favor the pre-season perception or should we favor the actual game tape this season?

You're right about the perception of us vs. the Texans before the season, but historical perception does not often equate to current reality.

Edited September 27, 2023 by MasterAwesome

[Turtle]

1 hour ago, Growl said:

Fans equate QB ceiling with “is he big and fast” laboring under the delusion that you can just mix in a bit of Coach Em Up and he can learn everything else and add it to the traits.

there are things Bryce does right now that long term NFL QBs never develop the ability to do. 

Richardson will never be as good at these things. They aren’t “just a bit of coaching” away. He may be a spectacular player but it will be doing things his own way and his ceiling in comparison to things that Young excels at is lower. Maybe he’s a great player, maybe he’s better overall. But it won’t be because his frame and speed are a commentary on his “ceiling.” 
 

you could honestly argue that Richardson’s frame and mobility are a cap to his ability to develop these things. Guys like that have never developed the ability to move a pocket around the way a guy like Brees did because they’ve never needed to. Perhaps at some point some unicorn will come along with a really unique environment he was grown in as a younger player that allows him to be the best of both worlds, but until it happens you’re going to continue to operate under the belief that guys like that simply don’t develop those rare skills to their peak extent because their athleticism didn’t force them to develop those skills at the most crucial stages of their development. 

edit: im all for drafting athletes at the QB position and developing them to their best, especially with how much easier it is to play QB in the current NFL. But we haven’t seen the Brady/Cam hybrid yet and it may not be possible. So much of what Cam did poorly was baked into him because he could do other things that perhaps conflicted with his ability to develop on those areas. And vice versa.

This is where my head was at. Bryce has those unteachable between the ears things going on, AR has other strengths for sure cant deny it dude is a stud, but he wont be slinging it around like a Rodgers or Brady in his age 35+, his body will fail him. 

No guarantee Bryce is those guys either but the formula is there .. the potential.

@Varking Like i said any draft selection is a dice role, but you take a chance on a guy with the potential. Idk man gotta believe in something otherwise this fan sh*t is no fun at all

 

 

[Varking]

1 hour ago, Cary Kollins said:

Why was Tom Brady better than every player taken in the prior five rounds?

Was he?!!

[Varking]

1 hour ago, MasterAwesome said:

What a weird argument...

Bryce Young was drafted 1st, CJ Stroud was drafted 2nd.  Checkmate!  Bryce > CJ

That is my argument. He should be better hence why he went higher. 

[SmittysLawnGuy]

Maybe we keep our spot n take Jalen Carter, keep Moore at our original pick and have a top 2 pick next year. I only ponder which idea would turn out better

[Varking]

1 hour ago, MasterAwesome said:

What is the relevance of what our situations looked like "going into the season" when we're heading into Week 4 and actually have empirical evidence to evaluate?  Going into the season, Icky was our stalwart LT...now he's unfortunately resembling more of a turnstile.  Which impression do you think is more relevant to current day?  Going into the season, we had a pretty strong ILB duo.  Now Shaq and Frankie are both injured.  Going into the season, Chuba was considered a joke on these boards and most people didn't even want him on the roster.  Now people are saying he's our best RB and want him to get more carries over Miles.  One more, and I know you'll love this one: going into the season, Bryce was considered the most "pro ready" QB with the easiest transition.  Now going into Week 4, he has struggled more than either Stroud or Richardson.  Do we favor the pre-season perception or should we favor the actual game tape this season?

You're right about the perception of us vs. the Texans before the season, but historical perception does not often equate to current reality.

What do folks want to talk about here? If I talk about the season itself im told it’s just 3 games, if I talk about what the offseason was like im told it doesn’t matter. So maybe we should have a game day thread, threads for injury updates and that’s it? Or does weeks 1-3 going into week 4 show Stroud and Richardson as better players so far than Bryce? 

Edited September 27, 2023 by Varking

[SmittysLawnGuy]

2 minutes ago, Varking said:

What do folks want to talk about here? If I talk about there season itself im told it’s just 3 games, if I talk about what the offseason was like im told it doesn’t matter. So maybe we should have a game day thread, threads for injury updates and that’s it? Or does weeks 1-3 going into week 4 show Stroud and Richardson as better players so far than Bryce? 

Bless you son! It's Ok not to get behind A 40 year rebuild!

[Varking]

8 minutes ago, Turtle said:

This is where my head was at. Bryce has those unteachable between the ears things going on, AR has other strengths for sure cant deny it dude is a stud, but he wont be slinging it around like a Rodgers or Brady in his age 35+, his body will fail him. 

No guarantee Bryce is those guys either but the formula is there .. the potential.

@Varking Like i said any draft selection is a dice role, but you take a chance on a guy with the potential. Idk man gotta believe in something otherwise this fan sh*t is no fun at all

 

 

I don’t fully equate potential with size and speed. I don’t believe Bryce is some between the ear genius where he’s significantly smarter in a football sense than CJ Stroud. But Stroud is a taller guy, with more weight to him, with a better arm, and he’s not having issues making reads and I’d argue he’s as mobile as Bryce if not a little more. He just didn’t show it until the UGA game. 
 

Richardson has basically unlimited potential. Will he reach that? I doubt it but potential-wise he’s above both Stroud and Bryce. 
 

Bryce was supposed to be the high floor safe pick. Most evaluators had no doubt he would be good in there NFL the only question was size/durability. Which you do have to ask yourself if he’s playing through a bum ankle will this cause him to form some bad habits just to be out there playing? 

[CRA]

1 hour ago, Cary Kollins said:

Why was Tom Brady better than every player taken in the prior five rounds?

Because of where he landed.  He landed somewhere to be successful and grow. 
 

Tom Brady doesn’t develop into the same QB if he lands with  all 31 other teams 

[SmittysLawnGuy]

Varking spitting truth! Same people who hate you loved Darnold, Rhule, Baker Id throw in Teddy but he was the best thing we have had til (shake my head) the red rocket.

Edited September 27, 2023 by SmittysLawnGuy