So ESPN thinks we'll trade DWill for a high first round pick

[CatMan72]

I doubt that will happen, Stewart is good but Williams is a gamebreaker.

If anyone is getting traded, it's Peppers.

[peteywheatstraw]

rather wait until next season when locker comes out. some decent qb's this season, but locker looks like a beast. dunno how that would work with deangelo being a free agent and all but that's my take.

[peteywheatstraw]

of course we need a stop gap for a year or two in that situation. maybe it's moore or another vet?

[coxc63]

2004-1.Eli Manning

2.Philip Rivers

3.Ben Roethlisberger

4.J.P. Losman

2005-1.Alex Smith

2.Aaron Rodgers

3.Jason Campbell

2006-1.Vince Young

2.Matt Leinart

3.Jay Cutler

2007-1.Jamarcus Russell

2.Brady Quinn

2008-1.Matt Ryan

2.Joe Flacco

2009-1.Matthew Stafford

2.Mark Sanchez

3.Josh Freeman

Here's a list of all the QBs who were drafted in the first round in the last six drafts. There has not been an elite corps of QB's to enter the NFL since 2004 excluding J.P. Losman...This years first round QB draft choices are proven busts...(Stafford and Sanchez are in the top 5 in picks this season and Freeman sat on the bench for the majority of the season)...(Stafford has shown signs that he could become elite in maybe 3-4 years...Detroit just started him too soon),Last years impressive rookies in Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco are already on the decline...(and the falcons added Tony Gonzalez for Matt Ryan to get better). The QB's from '07 are complete busts and are consistently number 2 QBs for their franchises. The QB's for the '06 season aren't elite or super bowl caliber QB's (Cutler was until the trade to Chicago)...The QBs from the '05 draft are underachievers (excluding Aaron Rodgers unless Green Bays OL can keep him off his back) but Alex Smith could possibly be the worst pick in draft history, and The Redskins aren't happy with the way Jason Campbell plays...Now the QBs from the '04 Draft are all studs two of them have won super bowls and one of them has multiple super bowl rings (Rivers is on the verge of getting one this year)...(J.P. Losman is the only bust from that first round)...This list should prove that Carolina should not give up one of their MVP's on the team for a high draft pick to obtain an unproven QB...some of the greatest QBs are drafted lower in the draft...(prime example Tom Brady 6th round). Mccoy and Bradford are expected to drop to the second round this year...We don't need Clausen...We NEED Double Trouble to be a contender in this league. It's common sense...

[Ranger1]

Why trade Williams? It doesn't make any sense at all. Stewart has battled injuries his entire time with Carolina; you think the FO is going to kick our best RB to the curb with his injury record?

Why get rid of your best playmaker? We didn't get rid of Muhammad after his monster season, and we didn't get rid of Smith after his monster season. You keep your best players, not lose them.

Look at Peppers. They SHOULD have gotten rid of him, but instead they showed loyalty, and kept him even against his own wishes. No way they bail on Williams.

[frash.exe]

Here's a list of all the QBs who were drafted in the first round in the last six drafts. There has not been an elite corps of QB's to enter the NFL since 2004 excluding J.P. Losman...This years first round QB draft choices are proven busts...(Stafford and Sanchez are in the top 5 in picks this season and Freeman sat on the bench for the majority of the season)...(Stafford has shown signs that he could become elite in maybe 3-4 years...Detroit just started him too soon),Last years impressive rookies in Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco are already on the decline...(and the falcons added Tony Gonzalez for Matt Ryan to get better). The QB's from '07 are complete busts and are consistently number 2 QBs for their franchises. The QB's for the '06 season aren't elite or super bowl caliber QB's (Cutler was until the trade to Chicago)...The QBs from the '05 draft are underachievers (excluding Aaron Rodgers unless Green Bays OL can keep him off his back) but Alex Smith could possibly be the worst pick in draft history, and The Redskins aren't happy with the way Jason Campbell plays...Now the QBs from the '04 Draft are all studs two of them have won super bowls and one of them has multiple super bowl rings (Rivers is on the verge of getting one this year)...(J.P. Losman is the only bust from that first round)...This list should prove that Carolina should not give up one of their MVP's on the team for a high draft pick to obtain an unproven QB...some of the greatest QBs are drafted lower in the draft...(prime example Tom Brady 6th round). Mccoy and Bradford are expected to drop to the second round this year...We don't need Clausen...We NEED Double Trouble to be a contender in this league. It's common sense...

i'm not in favor of trading DeAngelo Williams, unless it's like a herschel walker type trade and involves bill belichick coming here to head coach, but you don't make sense

[coxc63]

Alright Raging Bull how do I not make sense, I have pointed out the decline in talent coming from the draft at the QB position for the past six years. What doesn't make sense is if Carolina would even consider a trade like this, there will be perfectly good talent in the later rounds at the QB position, we do not need a 1st round pick overall...In fact the first round in the draft is highly overrated and over payed...Most of the players only play good in college to get that high paying contract and become busts in the pro's. So raging bull let your mind mature a little bit and maybe you can comprehend what you read some times...or just lay off the drugs

[nosuchthingasapanther]

But the one thing that many of you guys aren't realizing is that I truly believe that DeAngelo Williams doesn't want to re-sign there.

When he was at Memphis he was very competitive, and never wanted to come out of the game. I know it is eating him alive that he is splitting carries. I know it is eating him alive that he came into camp this year even better than he did last year, and still lost touches/carries to Stewart. DeAngelo says one thing, but his agent comes on a local radio show( http://www.sports56whbq.com/ )in Memphis saying another. When his agent(Jimmy Sexton) was asked earlier this year why DeAngelo didn't sign an extension ala M. Jones-Drew, his comment was something to the effect of "we want to see what his role will be on the team in the future." Lol, that comment told me all I needed to know. He doesn't want to be in Charlotte splitting carries. People assume that he will play next year on the final year of that contract. He will be traded this offseason, and it will be because he wanted to be traded.

hmmm...if what you're saying is true, then it just confirms what i've been suspecting...

the speculation that carolina would consider not extending williams's contracted started at the end of the 2008 season when both parties decided to leave his contract as is.

my theory...williams turned down their offer. i personally think williams doesn't plan to remain in carolina.

i don't think williams wants to be a panther for his entire career.

the panthers are going to put williams on the market

all this talk about trading stewart when it's not a certainty that williams will remain in carolina.

my conspiracy theory...williams doesn't want to stay in carolina. he will end up in tennessee.

if your report about what his agent said is true, and williams indeed did turn down carolina's offer as stated...to go a step further, i also believe carolina gave him the opportunity to be "the guy" this season. at one point, williams was well on his way to carrying the ball 300+ times this season while stewart MIGHT have reached last season's numbers. williams would have been right in line with all the other top RBs in the league as far as number of carries...but seemingly unnoticed by some people on this board, the kid took a beating since day one. now stewart's on pace to have just as much touches as him.

Don't know the exact number of yards, but Stewart had 14 carries for like 30 something yards last week against Minnesotta.

14 for 60...you had to have known i was gonna correct that crap.

Number28(the biggest Deangelo hater of all) said on this topic that he is looking forward to seeing what Jonathan Stewart can do while carrying the full load.

i'm not a deangelo hater. what i do despise is putting a single player ahead of the entire team...and that's what a lot of people on this forum have done since day one. deangelo's numbers seem more important to some of you than the overall team...the funny thing is, for all his efforts he still doesn't carry the team like some of you so blindly believe.

it's just like chris johnson in tennessee...a possible 2000 yard rushing season, and for what? to finish with the same record as carolina?

if what you're saying about williams is true and he does feel the way you make it sound like he does, then i say good riddance. give me a team player who will make a difference.

[Gazi]

14 for 60...you had to have known i was gonna correct that crap.

Say what? :nono:

[top dawg]

That was a fantastic post. As some of you may know I love DeAngelo Williams. Just like everybody else who lives in Memphis. It is really cool to see many fans get irate about the topic of trading him. That means many Panther fans have fell in love with him as a player and most importantly as a human. This day, or the day they will eventually trade Deangelo was coming a long time ago. When they drafted Jonathan Stewart with the 14th pick, Deangelo days were numbered. What threw a monkey wrench into the big scheme was Deangelo breaking out last year. Nobody in that orginization knew he could be this good. You don't draft a player who has Bo Jackson or Herchel Walker type gifts(Jonathan Stewart) if you believed that DeAngelo was a feature type of back. Unfortuanately Fox gave up on DeAngelo before he really ever got a chance to shine. I said it before, and I will say it again. The way Deangelo Wiliiams was handled his 2nd year in the league was criminal. It was a total waste of talent. Foster had no business being the workhorse that year. So instead of featuring Williams and seeing what he has to offer they drafted a special talent over him, without truly finding out what DeAngelo could do. The same thing has happened at qb this year. They may have a nice qb in Matt Moore, but he will never get a chance in Carolina, because they stuck with Dellhomme so long that that they don't have a good amount of games to judge Moore on. They will bring in another qb and Moore may possibly be the game manager Fox wanted. What if Moore goes out and play the same way the last 2 games the way he did last week? Then what? John Fox should be fired on that reason alone. But the one thing that many of you guys aren't realizing is that I truly believe that DeAngelo Williams doesn't want to re-sign there.

When he was at Memphis he was very competitive, and never wanted to come out of the game. I know it is eating him alive that he is splitting carries. I know it is eating him alive that he came into camp this year even better than he did last year, and still lost touches/carries to Stewart. DeAngelo says one thing, but his agent comes on a local radio show( http://www.sports56whbq.com/ )in Memphis saying another. When his agent(Jimmy Sexton) was asked earlier this year why DeAngelo didn't sign an extension ala M. Jones-Drew, his comment was something to the effect of "we want to see what his role will be on the team in the future." Lol, that comment told me all I needed to know. He doesn't want to be in Charlotte splitting carries. People assume that he will play next year on the final year of that contract. He will be traded this offseason, and it will be because he wanted to be traded. Stewart is too good to be sitting on the bench splitting carries, and so is DeAngelo.

Don't know the exact number of yards, but Stewart had 14 carries for like 30 something yards last week against Minnesotta. But he was featured and got the ball and eventually he found running lanes and started running over mothaf**ka's. Normally he wouldn't have gotten that amount of carries, but he got better as the game went along. DeAngelo is that same type of back. Although he doesn't use power, he gets better as the game goes if he is featured, and he hast never truly been featured in Carolina. There were games where he could have threatened 300 yards if he was featured... So both of their talents are being wasted. I know it has to bother Stewart to see a back that was drafted out of his class rush for 2000 yards and he has yet to see a 1000 yards. I know it eats at Deangelo he is the only starting back from his draft class that never have never been featured. To know that no matter how well he plays he will never be "the guy".

In Memphis we have a saying, or people who followed DeAngelo's college career. The only person that can stop Deangelo Williams is John Fox. DeAngelo had the same type of season last year Chris Johnson is having this year. The big difference is that he is the guy in Nashville and is being featured, and DeAngelo is just a bridge to Jonathan Stewart. So while many of you Deangelo fans in Charlotte believe that it is sacriligious to think of Deangelo in another uniform, many of his fans here in Memphis always thought that this was his last year in Charlotte anyway. This is Drew Brees and Phillip Rivers. Drew Brees was pretty good in San Diego, but he became a star and a hall of famer elsewhere. San Diego wasn't hurt because they had an all pro waiting in the wings. Deangelo was pretty good In Charlotte the past 2 years, but he hasn't scratched the surface. He will become a monster player on another team. If Marshall Faulk can be traded, so can DeAngelo. Stewart is a 1500 yard back and he is waiting in the wings. He is ready. It is time for him to play ball.

Number28(the biggest Deangelo hater of all) said on this topic that he is looking forward to seeing what Jonathan Stewart can do while carrying the full load. Yea, I kind of feel the same way about DeAngelo Williams... He is a 2000 yard back on another team. DeAngelo has to decide if he wants to be great or just another good back who splits carries. He is saying all the right things publicly, but he wants to be great and he can't do that coming out of the game half of the time and leaving plays on the field. When DeAngelo didn't want to sign a long term deal this offseason that should have told you all you needed to know about his intentions.

If tjmurray78 is correct, then we are going to have a big problem within the next year and a half. And, the thing is, that this ananlysis makes sense. Why would the likes of Williams or Stewart want to share carries? To save their bodies? Please!

So, all of you crying and whining about needing Double Trouble to be a top contender or have a potent rushing attack, don't you realize that Double Trouble is living on borrowed time. Charlotte (nor any town really) is not big enough for two stud backs, which brings me to my next issue with many of you: Jonathan Stewart hasn't proved that he is capable of carrying the load because of one game, he has proved this as a result of his entire body of work in a Panthers' uniform. Consequently, because of his continued succes on the pro level, his success in college can be viewed as an extension of that overall body of work. Stewart is not fluke,nor flop. He has achieved 100 yard performances in spite of Williams getting the bulk of carries, and has been effective week in and week out.

Like I have said before, Stewart has done way more with his limited duty in the shadow of Deangelo Williams, than Williams did in his spot duty within the shadow of DeShaun Foster. Moreover, I reject the notion that Stewart is an east-west back. He is more of a north-south runner than Williams has been while here in Carolina. Ironically, people said the same thing about Williams until some of those patented cutbacks and reversals started paying dividends once Williams' carries increased. Everyone knows that Stewart's rep is that of a bruiser type back with power and speed. If they don't, then they must have neglected to watch the games and perused the scouting reports. Williams is a beast, and it's funny to me how some of you just don't know it...even now, after seeing him do his thing. TO me, the only red flag that I see with Stew is his nagging injuries, but in reality it's not like even this has stopped him from being a helluva of a runner.

You guys better prepeare yourselves for the Double Trouble divorce. It's gonna happen. It's just a matter of when. it's not gonna be easy to accept, regardless of who stays or who goes. It's easy to say that D. Will is the better back, but you had better knowthat Stewart could just as easily be viewed that way in another year or two (and some people, outside of Carolina, will tell you that even today).

[OnlyPantherFaninMaine]

Best Scenario:

Bring in an another QB who is already comfortable with the NFL style and speed (Troy Smith, Garrard, Dixon, Hasselback, have your pick.) Keep around Moore and draft another QB in rounds 3-4 of this upcoming draft. Have competition in training camp, its the best thing to keep players driven and focussed. Let the best have the starting role week one.

With the second pick of this upcoming draft, get a stud #2 receiver and watch him grow under a fresh leader on offense and bloom under the teachings of Steve Smith and Moose.

Keep around DWill and Stewart and let them tear it up as we have been accustomed to seeing week in and week out. It's all about how they compliment each other. Their styles of running are most effective when together when they are utilized to keep a defense exhausted and off-balance.

Use Peppers as leverage to acquire a possible first or another second, address the DT position with this years deep class. Rest of our draft picks should be used maybe to get a special teams specialist and a role player on offense. The rest of our picks for position hole-filling and depth.

And finally, oust Delhomme, maybe Fox if the cards fall that way, Davidson and most definitely Crossman. Bring in fresh blood ready to instill the desire to win and succeed. It's Carolina's time. We have the talent.

[frash.exe]

Alright Raging Bull how do I not make sense, I have pointed out the decline in talent coming from the draft at the QB position for the past six years.

The talent declined compared to what? Akili Smith? Ryan Leaf? Tommy Maddox? Rick Mirer?

What doesn't make sense is if Carolina would even consider a trade like this, there will be perfectly good talent in the later rounds at the QB position, we do not need a 1st round pick overall...

...but you just said the talent at QB has been declining the past six years so what is this just a huge surge coming through?

In fact the first round in the draft is highly overrated and over payed...Most of the players only play good in college to get that high paying contract and become busts in the pro's.

And yet the first round produces more productive and reliable QBs than any other round, and to expand, more reliable starters in general than any other round, which is partly why the top prospects are drafted there every year.

So raging bull let your mind mature a little bit and maybe you can comprehend what you read some times...or just lay off the drugs

Maybe I'd take your advice seriously but since you claim Joe Flacco is on the decline, yet he has progressed in virtually every passing category you can imagine this year, and that less than a season into their careers Stafford and Sanchez have proven to be busts (yet you contradict that claim respective to Stafford in your next comment stating that the door is still open for him) and cherry picking the best situation to try to get your point across that top QBs can be found in the later rounds (if you can find one guy [Tom Brady] that worked out in the sixth I can find 100 others that didn't amount to poo) I'm skeptical to the point of examining the argument. I don't know, must be all those Lysergide capsules I'm ingesting that causes me to see these things at a most logical pragmatic level.

Some of you people really really really need to follow up on other players from other teams accurately and do your research before you make blind judgments.

[Lumps]

I disagree with the view we HAVE to give Dwill or Jstew up. Why is this? We can get rid of many other players

Delhomme, Peppers, Jarrett, Kemo, Lewis plus others...

All these guys would clear a lot of cap space and cept Julius would be easy to replace. Even Julius is easy to replace if your talking about how he plays latley. It could also easily get the Panthers a QB, WR and DT, especially if the panther draft. I would rather see all four of those players (not counting Jake) walk than let go of Williams alone... and not because of an ultimatum but just because I can see those guys be replaced and not have an impact on a game like replacing dwill would. I wish Fox were the type of guy to let 5 rookies fight over the position instead of it is what it is bullshit. I bet he cuts Martin next year...

Double trouble has been a success from every standpoint. Business and player success. It has made the organization a lot of money and has won them a lot of games solely. They are both still young and have it left in them. There would be absolutely zero reason the front office would have to split them up and the only reason I would see it happening is Dwill or Jstew deciding for themselves its time to leave.

You jsut don't trade a player that makes the kind of impacts as 'double trouble'. They dubbed themselves that...if it were up to me I'd keep them together and happy as long as they produced. I am taking all emotion of of them. They are showing numbers, when they stop coming in split them up. Logic.

[tjmurray]

"i'm not a deangelo hater. what i do despise is putting a single player ahead of the entire team...and that's what a lot of people on this forum have done since day one. deangelo's numbers seem more important to some of you than the overall team...the funny thing is, for all his efforts he still doesn't carry the team like some of you so blindly believe.

it's just like chris johnson in tennessee...a possible 2000 yard rushing season, and for what? to finish with the same record as carolina?

if what you're saying about williams is true and he does feel the way you make it sound like he does, then i say good riddance. give me a team player who will make a difference. " -Number28-

Then you despise yourself then... You were the main one early in the season bitching for Stewart to get more carries and in a sense blaming the teams record & ground struggles on DeAngelo Williams, when that clearly wasn't the case.. You are full of poo. How in the hell can you say he isn't a team player, and he doesn't make a difference. He took Stewart under his wing knowing that he was going to eventually be his replacement. When a reporter asked Brett Farve about taking Aaron Rodgers under his wing while he was in Green Bay Brett Farve came back at the reporter, "That isn't my job." Get the hell out of here Number28. You would much rather see Jonathan Stewart successful before anything else. I never see you complaining about Jake Dellhomme or anything else Carolina Panther football. You complain about Jonathan Stewart not getting the ball enough, as if that is the reason why they were losing games, and you shoot down any type of props Deangelo Williams get on this board. You are a straight buster.

"it's just like chris johnson in tennessee...a possible 2000 yard rushing season, and for what? to finish with the same record as carolina?" So that is Chris Johnson fault? If the roles were reversed and that was Stewart running wild you would have a hard on to the point Viagra would be envious. You started a thread with a countdown to Stewart getting 1000 yards and you have the nerve to say that people are putting DeAngelo statistics before the team? Get the f**k out here clown. I don't know if Carolina offered DeAngelo an extension this offseason or not. I know that his agent wasn't knocking down Hurney's door trying to get one. That doesn't make him selfish at all. DeAngelo Williams wanting to explore his options isn't selfish at all. It is his career. It is his livelyhood.

Chris Johnson is selfish and all about his numbers. That is his perogative, but I don't blame a player who wants to be great. Chris Johnson didn't want any part of smash n dash. He wanted to make his mark in the league. And he is doing that now. Players play this game or any other sport to win/compete and to be great. To be remembered when they are long gone. Be a hall of famer if possible. People will remember Chris Johnson and this magical season. just like we remember Barry Sanders on all of those sorry teams he played on. If Chris Johnson was behind Deshaun Foster his ass would have been rotting on the bench because he isn't a physical downhill runner that Fox wanted. When Jonathen Stewart was drafted, he told the Panther organization that he wanted to be one of the bests backs in the league. How can you call a player selfish, especially a running back, for wanting to carry the load. Like all great backs do.

DeAngelo was hurt on a freak play. In that Jets game he was damn near horse collared and almost broke his ankle. That ankle hasn't been right since. He took hits all season long this year and last year and came back from it. It doesn't mean that he can't "carry the load". It just goes to show you that you can still get hurt, even on limited carries. I know when it comes to DeAngelo you would say good riddance. I know that you are loving the fact that he is hurt and Stewart is being featured. You've been hoping for DeAngelo to get hurt from day one so Stewart can shine, and that is painfully obvious. ...

Another one of your stupid ass quotes. "the funny thing is, for all his efforts he still doesn't carry the team like some of you so blindly believe" Well, who fault is that? If he was given the oppurtunity he would be able to. Nobody believes he carries the team. He isn't allowed to. He can't play the first series of the game without coming out. That is just the way you take it Number28. You just have such an overwhelming need to go out of your way to bang on DeAngelo Williams to build Jonathan Stewart up, and it boils your blood when fans get on here praising DeAngelo. You are kind of like a cockroach. As far as you correcting me on his yardage after 14 carries... My point was he wasn't getting big yards early in the game and eventually he found room as he got more carries. Instead of 14 carries I should have said 12 or 13, big deal.... I don't have time to look up yardage after every single carry. People who watched the game knew what I was trying to say.