Gamble & Marshall

[CRA]

Combination of a few things. Davis has more penalties than anyone at 11 which is terrible for anyone let alone a TE, and he has dropped more passes than anyone else. He's dynamic but makes a lot of mistakes, while his run blocking is inconsistent at best.

His TDs mask an inconsistent player (though our penalties weigh him down more heavily than perhaps they should and its something we may ammend)

I agree with that....

However, some positives of a player significantly outweight the negative aspects in there game and I think he is a perfect example. I mean, do you really think overall he has been the 52nd best TE this season?

I also don't see how Matt Moore can get a positive rating against Tampa and a negative one against the Vikes. I think some more tinkering needs to be done.

[jramsey4]

I wouldnt agree with that, he has had moments where he has been excellent but whether it be down to a lot of little knocks he has had I haven't seen the same player that I thought was the best RB in the league down the stretch last year.

He hasn't just bailed you out on 3rd and long, thats a combination of the defense expecting pass and the offensive line opening up huge holes (along with the WRs and TEs who block well in space for the most part

Oh sure nothing to do with Dwill he isn't one of the best cut back runners in the league because of his uncanny field vision. It's all because of blocking. Never mind that almost always the D knew it was coming because of how predictable our play calling was because of Jakes ineffectiveness.

We almost always face 8 or 9 man fronts and he still is one of the most productive backs in the league. Just in your run ratings you have Grant and Jamal Charles rated higher, that is just plain laughable. Your ratings need some work but its a start.

[MaineManPanther]

I wouldnt agree with that, he has had moments where he has been excellent but whether it be down to a lot of little knocks he has had I haven't seen the same player that I thought was the best RB in the league down the stretch last year.

He hasn't just bailed you out on 3rd and long, thats a combination of the defense expecting pass and the offensive line opening up huge holes (along with the WRs and TEs who block well in space for the most part

The stats and rankings the the OP posted, how much is that accurate? I thought I read since you guys see the same tape we do, its it little diffcult judging DB's. Or is not much of a diffrernce?

[Kal]

I agree with that....

However, some positives of a player significantly outweight the negative aspects in there game and I think he is a perfect example. I mean, do you really think overall he has been the 52nd best TE this season?

I also don't see how Matt Moore can get a positive rating against Tampa and a negative one against the Vikes. I think some more tinkering needs to be done.

I'd ay we do perhaps overweight penalties which hurts his rating, but conversely I think you have to value the negatives aspects of a players play as Davis really hurts the Niners at times. I wouldnt say he's the 52nd best TE this year, but I wouldnt say he's top 10 either. He is what he is, elite potential but hugely inconsistent. Theres a debate over on Footballsfuture about him and I'd rather have a host of TEs until he gets the mental aspects of the game down.

As for Moore, I didnt see the second half of the game against the Vikes but he wasnt great in the first half. Maybe you could say he performed when it mattered, but again he played badly enough in the first half that put his team in a position to need him to play well in the second. I couldnt tell if his throws were on the money or if Smith was making wine out of water with them.

[jramsey4]

I'd ay we do perhaps overweight penalties which hurts his rating, but conversely I think you have to value the negatives aspects of a players play as Davis really hurts the Niners at times. I wouldnt say he's the 52nd best TE this year, but I wouldnt say he's top 10 either. He is what he is, elite potential but hugely inconsistent. Theres a debate over on Footballsfuture about him and I'd rather have a host of TEs until he gets the mental aspects of the game down.

As for Moore, I didnt see the second half of the game against the Vikes but he wasnt great in the first half. Maybe you could say he performed when it mattered, but again he played badly enough in the first half that put his team in a position to need him to play well in the second. I couldnt tell if his throws were on the money or if Smith was making wine out of water with them.

So your judging him on the 1st half? The 2nd half he tore the Vikes up. The Vikings one of the best D's in the league he tore it up. If that wasn't a fluke he could become a solid QB that maybe could get us to the playoffs and maybe even win a few.

[Kal]

The stats and rankings the the OP posted, how much is that accurate? I thought I read since you guys see the same tape we do, its it little diffcult judging DB's. Or is not much of a diffrernce?

Its more difficult to grade when the ball isnt thrown the way of a DB, but in terms of stat tracking it has no impact because the cameras always watch the ball. So I'd say we're more accurate than anything out there ... tackle counts are way off on the NFL site. Tracking tackles retrospectively can be tough so doing it live is really tough for the live scorers, while we get to do things retrospectively. I was doing the Chargers/ Bengals game and they gave Antoine Cason credit (check the gamebook at the end of the first quarter) credit for a tackle when he wasn't even on the field (he didn't even get on the field until the 4th quarter - the scorer got Steve Gregory who was wearing long white sleeves confused with a black man who wasn't wearing any)

The Assist thing is terrible as well. Scorers discrestion seems to apply with some scorers giving out assists for no reason. We have no agenda while its clear home team guys have their favourites.

[Kal]

So your judging him on the 1st half? The 2nd half he tore the Vikes up. The Vikings one of the best D's in the league he tore it up. If that wasn't a fluke he could become a solid QB that maybe could get us to the playoffs and maybe even win a few.

You seem intent on taking everything I say out of context. I didn't analyse the game, how could I if I didn't watch the game? I watched it for fun, I'm just speculating as to why he rated the way he did.

[MaineManPanther]

So your judging him on the 1st half? The 2nd half he tore the Vikes up. The Vikings one of the best D's in the league he tore it up. If that wasn't a fluke he could become a solid QB that maybe could get us to the playoffs and maybe even win a few.

He's judging the whole game. While Moore did good in the 2nd, it doesnt mean you get a mulligan for the first.

[CRA]

I'd ay we do perhaps overweight penalties which hurts his rating, but conversely I think you have to value the negatives aspects of a players play as Davis really hurts the Niners at times. I wouldnt say he's the 52nd best TE this year, but I wouldnt say he's top 10 either. He is what he is, elite potential but hugely inconsistent. Theres a debate over on Footballsfuture about him and I'd rather have a host of TEs until he gets the mental aspects of the game down.

As for Moore, I didnt see the second half of the game against the Vikes but he wasnt great in the first half. Maybe you could say he performed when it mattered, but again he played badly enough in the first half that put his team in a position to need him to play well in the second. I couldnt tell if his throws were on the money or if Smith was making wine out of water with them.

well, the best drive of that game by either QB was Moore's TD drive in the 1st half. Technically, Moore played a good enough game they should have never trailed a second of that game.

[jramsey4]

He's judging the whole game. While Moore did good in the 2nd, it doesnt mean you get a mulligan for the first.

I know no one every cuts any slack for a guy making his 6th start ever and only his 3rd in 2 years. Is anyone really saying that Moore didn't have one of the better passing games by a Panther this decade? And against one of the best D's in the league. I'm not saying he is a elite QB or anything but hell yeah his 2nd half made up for his so call bad half (1 td no ints). How quick we are to forget the Jake Delhomme 3 ints in one half games.

[Kal]

Oh sure nothing to do with Dwill he isn't one of the best cut back runners in the league because of his uncanny field vision. It's all because of blocking. Never mind that almost always the D knew it was coming because of how predictable our play calling was because of Jakes ineffectiveness.

We almost always face 8 or 9 man fronts and he still is one of the most productive backs in the league. Just in your run ratings you have Grant and Jamal Charles rated higher, that is just plain laughable. Your ratings need some work but its a start.

Bit of an overreaction here. I didn't say Williams was a bad player, in fact he's been very good this year but has had a couple of bad games. Its a bit of a myth that you guys face 9 men in the box, no team really does. And even facing 8 men in the box you only face that more than other teams because there isnt another team in the league who uses as few 3 receiver sets as you.

How much have you seen of Grant and Charles to be making that statement? I don't watch a lot of the Packers so I wouldn't qualify that. As for Charles he's played exceptionally well when he has got carries. Doesn't make him a better back than Williams, but he's producing (although against inferior opposition, one thing our grading doesnt count for is level of injury or opposition as that is too subjective right now)

Williams grading is obviously hurt a lot by the Redskins game where he was terrible but up until the last few weeks he was grading very well in near enough every game. Since the Jets game though he's been nicked up (it appears) and he hasnt played all that well.

I never said it was all down to blocking, but Williams has benefited from it and from picking up a lot of yards in the 3rd and long situations where he faces 5/6 defensive backs.

[Kal]

I know no one every cuts any slack for a guy making his 6th start ever and only his 3rd in 2 years. Is anyone really saying that Moore didn't have one of the better passing games by a Panther this decade? And against one of the best D's in the league. I'm not saying he is a elite QB or anything but hell yeah his 2nd half made up for his so call bad half (1 td no ints). How quick we are to forget the Jake Delhomme 3 ints in one half games.

You can't take into account someones prior experience when judging their play, thats far too subjective. We're not scouts, we don't grade on potential we just analyse performance to keep it as objective as possible.

[hepcat]

Marshall covered Moss most of the game against the Pats...just saying.

[jramsey4]

You can't take into account someones prior experience when judging their play, thats far too subjective. We're not scouts, we don't grade on potential we just analyse performance to keep it as objective as possible.

All I care is for the past decade I have seen inconsistent QB play and I'm sick of it. I for one saw a QB that made a few mistakes early but as he got loosened up played just as good as any QB you could ask for.

He is young and the scary thing is I have seen improvement in Moore with every game. He is only going to get better guys and that gets my excited. I never see him as a Francise QB but a solid starter is very likely (think Delhomme in his first few years).