It's all about the QB's in the NFL now

[Ccat]

Left ESPN in 1997. My connections dried up long ago.

They were sweet when I had them. Best thing about working for ESPN was the connection for tickets. I could get seats to about any game.

I sent my in-laws Penn State tickets all the time....bought me some major In-Law Brownie Points.

I can imagine! They probably went back to hating you now though. Your usefulness to them is gone!

[pstall]

I'll give you Ali . Jim Brown is just as much of a legend as John Elway though!

I played softball with Moses(Charlton Heston) and partied on a boat with Ric Flair.

[Wither]

The 4-2-5 alignment is our nickel. The only difference is you are plugging in an additional Safety (converting Davis back) rather than a CB.

Using three safeties in zone isn't all that bad. However, if playing the nickel, you definitely need a dominant defensive line, which is probably where the Panthers would be most weak at.

5 db's= nickel. nickel meaning 5 i know it is hard for you to grasp the concept but what if nickel really did mean 5?

this is what i know about nickel defense.

there are 2 types run.

4-2-5

and

3-3-5

notice they both have a 5 at the end.

now you can change what you want to around within the numbers that is true but as long as it is 5 db's it is a nickel.

You sort of hurt your argument; you acknowledge that "Nickel" is just an umbrella term for different formations. While you are right that he is desribing a Nickel defense, he is also specifying some key things, making it a specific type of Nickel, which is all he really wants anyone to see.

Ease off this guy man, he clearly knows his stuff going to a community college and all.

Hey, I went to a community college. :sosp:

[Sandy Claws]

Using three safeties in zone isn't all that bad. However, if playing the nickel, you definitely need a dominant defensive line, which is probably where the Panthers would be most weak at.

You sort of hurt your argument; you acknowledge that "Nickel" is just an umbrella term for different formations. While you are right that he is desribing a Nickel defense, he is also specifying some key things, making it a specific type of Nickel, which is all he really wants anyone to see.

Hey, I went to a community college. :sosp:

My simple point earlier, that Ccat seemed to dispute, was that a defense with 5 DBs IS referred to as a Nickel defense, alignment, package etc. I did a quick google and posted a quote which happened to be Wiki. One of the message board self proclaimed geniuses decided to slam the use of wiki. This discussion must be more important to him than me if he spent time going beyond page 1 of search returns.

Colleges face more spread offenses. Getting more quicker players on the defensive side helps against those offenses. We started 5 DBs against the Vikes and the Pats the week before. That would be a 4-2-5. We likely would do the same against a lot of pass happy teams . Without looking, I would be surprised if we didn't do it against the Saints and Cards as well. It's all a matter of adjusting responsibilities.

I don't have a problem with community colleges. I teach at one. For the record, form the time I started playing organized football to the time I hung up the cleats was almost 11 years (Pop Warner up).

[Wither]

My simple point earlier, that Ccat seemed to dispute, was that a defense with 5 DBs IS referred to as a Nickel defense, alignment, package etc. I did a quick google and posted a quote which happened to be Wiki. One of the message board self proclaimed geniuses decided to slam the use of wiki. This discussion must be more important to him than me if he spent time going beyond page 1 of search returns.

I understand. I just got the impression he just wanted to make the point that there is a difference between different Nickel formations but just couldn't word it properly.

Colleges face more spread offenses. Getting more quicker players on the defensive side helps against those offenses. We started 5 DBs against the Vikes and the Pats the week before. That would be a 4-2-5. We likely would do the same against a lot of pass happy teams . Without looking, I would be surprised if we didn't do it against the Saints and Cards as well. It's all a matter of adjusting responsibilities.

More formations = more shuffling of players and assignments. They should just stick to the standard 4-3 and drop linebackers into deep coverage. The Panthers are suited for Tampa 2 if I ever saw a team that was.

I don't have a problem with community colleges. I teach at one. For the record, form the time I started playing organized football to the time I hung up the cleats was almost 11 years (Pop Warner up).

I was just picking; I can't really imagine anyone with any maturity would put down a community college.

[Ccat]

My simple point earlier, that Ccat seemed to dispute, was that a defense with 5 DBs IS referred to as a Nickel defense, alignment, package etc. I did a quick google and posted a quote which happened to be Wiki. One of the message board self proclaimed geniuses decided to slam the use of wiki. This discussion must be more important to him than me if he spent time going beyond page 1 of search returns.

Colleges face more spread offenses. Getting more quicker players on the defensive side helps against those offenses. We started 5 DBs against the Vikes and the Pats the week before. That would be a 4-2-5. We likely would do the same against a lot of pass happy teams . Without looking, I would be surprised if we didn't do it against the Saints and Cards as well. It's all a matter of adjusting responsibilities.

I don't have a problem with community colleges. I teach at one. For the record, form the time I started playing organized football to the time I hung up the cleats was almost 11 years (Pop Warner up).

I didn't dispute that it can be considered a type of nickel defense. However, most coaches that run the specific defense that I am referring to don't call it the "Nickel" but call it the "4-2-5." Why? Because it's not really designed to be like a normal nickel defense. It's really basically a formation that allows the defense to disguise coverages really well and it's really more like a 4-4.

Now, the Panthers may have had a 4-2-5 type of personnel in the game the other day, but it's not the same defense that I am referring to. Everyone here is mistakenly focusing on the numbers that are in the defense and not the concept. Although 5 is in the numbers, the concept of the defense is not the same concept of other "nickel" defenses. It is literally a base defense just like the 4-3 and 3-4 are.

[Ccat]

"Hi, my name is Todd. You may consider me a member of the Harris family, however I am very different from the other members of the Harris family. I am interested in different things and my interests often reflect my friend's interests more than my family's. Also, most people call me Todd, not Harris.

Also, you can not assume that I am like all other people named Todd. There are many people named Todd, but again my interests are very different than theirs are."

Now if you can understand that, you should be able to understand this.

"Hi, I am the 4-2-5 defense. Although you may consider me part of the "nickel" family, I am very different from the rest of the nickel defenses. My concepts are very different from theirs in some ways, and actually are closer to the concepts of my friends (4-4). Also, most coaches that use me call me the 4-2-5, not the Nickel.

Also, there are other defenses that can be called 4-2-5 defenses, but again my concepts are not the same as theirs just because they have the same name."

I hope that makes some more sense.

[Carl Spackler]

"Hi, my name is Todd. You may consider me a member of the Harris family, however I am very different from the other members of the Harris family. I am interested in different things and my interests often reflect my friend's interests more than my family's. Also, most people call me Todd, not Harris.

Also, you can not assume that I am like all other people named Todd. There are many people named Todd, but again my interests are very different than theirs are."

Now if you can understand that, you should be able to understand this.

"Hi, I am the 4-2-5 defense. Although you may consider me part of the "nickel" family, I am very different from the rest of the nickel defenses. My concepts are very different from theirs in some ways, and actually are closer to the concepts of my friends (4-4). Also, most coaches that use me call me the 4-2-5, not the Nickel.

Also, there are other defenses that can be called 4-2-5 defenses, but again my concepts are not the same as theirs just because they have the same name."

I hope that makes some more sense.

Todd Harris was an annoying college football and IndyCar announcer.

[Ccat]

Like I said, not everyone named Todd Harris is the same. I am not a college football or IndyCar announcer.

[Sandy Claws]

I didn't dispute that it can be considered a type of nickel defense. However, most coaches that run the specific defense that I am referring to don't call it the "Nickel" but call it the "4-2-5." Why? Because it's not really designed to be like a normal nickel defense. It's really basically a formation that allows the defense to disguise coverages really well and it's really more like a 4-4.

Now, the Panthers may have had a 4-2-5 type of personnel in the game the other day, but it's not the same defense that I am referring to. Everyone here is mistakenly focusing on the numbers that are in the defense and not the concept. Although 5 is in the numbers, the concept of the defense is not the same concept of other "nickel" defenses. It is literally a base defense just like the 4-3 and 3-4 are.

You did dispute the term "nickel" and continue to do so. 5 DBs by the current definition = nickel. That's not worth another post. Tell us how that defense is going to be different than the one that we started against the Vikings, Cardinals, Patriots, Saints, & probably others. We lined up 4 linemen 2 LBs and 5 DBs (3 CB & 2 S). Don't just give us a simple "I would have 3 S and 2 CBs". The bottom line is If I'm the Panthers and you line up a defense like your links describe, I'm powering right up the gut with Williams and Stewart and you won't stop it.

[Ccat]

You did dispute the term "nickel" and continue to do so. 5 DBs by the current definition = nickel. That's not worth another post. Tell us how that defense is going to be different than the one that we started against the Vikings, Cardinals, Patriots, Saints, & probably others. We lined up 4 linemen 2 LBs and 5 DBs (3 CB & 2 S). Don't just give us a simple "I would have 3 S and 2 CBs". The bottom line is If I'm the Panthers and you line up a defense like your links describe, I'm powering right up the gut with Williams and Stewart and you won't stop it.

Wow you are dumb...

although it could technically be called a nickel defense, is different than what most people would refer to as a nickel defense.

That wasn't the only time I said that either.

The way it is different is because although it says it has "5 DB's" it really doesn't. It's still only 2 corners, 1 real safety, then 2 Inside Linebackers, 2 outside linebackers that can also cover (better than the average linebacker), and then 4 lineman. If you had bothered to look at ANY of the links I provided maybe you would already know this. Stop looking at 4-2-5 and thinking automatically it means that there are really 5 true DB's. It's called that because of the way the defense can shift, hide coverages, and really be like many different types of defense including mainly the 4-4.

And yes, that defense is actually very good at stopping the run. Just look at the highlights THAT I ALREADY PROVIDED AND YOU PROBABLY IGNORED. It is not a defense designed only for stopping the pass. Look past the number 5 and do some research before making a post like that. Are you telling me that 4 lineman and 4 LB's can't stop the run?

[Ccat]

Colleges face more spread offenses. Getting more quicker players on the defensive side helps against those offenses. We started 5 DBs against the Vikes and the Pats the week before. That would be a 4-2-5. We likely would do the same against a lot of pass happy teams . Without looking, I would be surprised if we didn't do it against the Saints and Cards as well. It's all a matter of adjusting responsibilities.

This defense that I am talking about is not designed for just facing spread offenses. In fact, we play more old school teams that like to pound the ball between the tackles than we do spread teams.

The 4-2-5 defense is not named because of it's specific alignments. It allows the defense to move between the 4-4, the 4-3, the 3-3, and the 3-4 without having to change personnel and the defense can adjust to the Offense's formation this way and also easily disguise coverages. So it is called the 4-2-5 not because it is meant to have 5 true DB's but because it is a mixture between so many defenses that most of the personnel can have different roles in the defense just depending on each specific play call and offensive formation.

[Sandy Claws]

Wow you are dumb...

That wasn't the only time I said that either.

The way it is different is because although it says it has "5 DB's" it really doesn't. It's still only 2 corners, 1 real safety, then 2 Inside Linebackers, 2 outside linebackers that can also cover (better than the average linebacker), and then 4 lineman. If you had bothered to look at ANY of the links I provided maybe you would already know this. Stop looking at 4-2-5 and thinking automatically it means that there are really 5 true DB's. It's called that because of the way the defense can shift, hide coverages, and really be like many different types of defense including mainly the 4-4.

And yes, that defense is actually very good at stopping the run. Just look at the highlights THAT I ALREADY PROVIDED AND YOU PROBABLY IGNORED. It is not a defense designed only for stopping the pass. Look past the number 5 and do some research before making a post like that. Are you telling me that 4 lineman and 4 LB's can't stop the run?

I remember what I posted, that seems to be better than you have done. These are your posts in reply to mentions that it's a nickel. In actuality, nickel more applies to personnel package (the use of 5 DBs) rather than total defensive alignment.

Not really, because the 4-2-5 is designed to be an every down defense, not just a pass situation.

When you say it's a nickel defense, it sounds like you are making the assumption that it is the same defense that most people mean by "nickel defense" which it is not.

Are you saying what I suggested is just a nickel defense? If so, you are wrong

One of your links talks about replacing LBs with quicker safety type players. That means smaller which will hurt you against the run. PERIOD. A power running team like the Panther will shred it assuming they had an average QB..

[Sandy Claws]

Seriously, before you insult my intelligence with the kind of argument you have been presenting do some research.

Your argument that this defense is the same as a normal nickel defense is like saying 2+2=5. How are you going to tell me what the defense is made up of and what it is designed to do when you obviously have no clue and I fugING PLAY IN THE DEFENSE IN REAL LIFE.

Give me a break... I'm offended that you won't even take the time to read and comprehend all of my posts before making assumptions.

Your inability to present the benefits of this defense at an NFL level is an insult to the folks here that are trying to understand your arguement. It doesn't matter if you play it or not. If anthing, that makes you biased. It doesn't matter that it has appeared successful against part time players in Div 3. Full time NFL player read and react on both sides of the ball. Continue to be offended.