It's all about the QB's in the NFL now

[Urrymonster]

So...

Based on the definition everyone is using, a nickel defense is coined purely by the amount of defensive backs.

What happens if you are using a 4-2-5, but with 4 total LBs on the field? Or LB/DB hybrids? Going by the definitions these are not nickel defenses anymore, yet the personel are used in a formation that replicates a nickel defense.

Whilst I fundamentally agree that a 4-2-5 is a nickel defense, I think that some people are getting a little stuck on the '5 DBs = nickel' rule. There is a lot more to it than that.

[Sandy Claws]

So...

Based on the definition everyone is using, a nickel defense is coined purely by the amount of defensive backs.

What happens if you are using a 4-2-5, but with 4 total LBs on the field? Or LB/DB hybrids? Going by the definitions these are not nickel defenses anymore, yet the personel are used in a formation that replicates a nickel defense.

Whilst I fundamentally agree that a 4-2-5 is a nickel defense, I think that some people are getting a little stuck on the '5 DBs = nickel' rule. There is a lot more to it than that.

True

And it could be that some are just messing with a "knowitall" teenager who thinks he's more credible because he plays football for a community college.

Just Maybe:D

[Frizzy350]

well... he is a bit more credible considering he plays. there alot more defenses than the 3-4 and 4-3, just not really in the nfl. its just like offense, the option play exists and the tbone formation, and heck before last year there was a wildcat. nobody thought these were effective offensive plays in the nfl, but could be run with high success at the college level. the same thing goes for defenses. my old highschool used to run a 4-4 (or 4-2-5) and there was a separate nickel package that we used.

[Ccat]

True

And it could be that some are just messing with a "knowitall" teenager who thinks he's more credible because he plays football for a community college.

Just Maybe:D

What is up with the whole community college thing? I don't go to a community college so I'm not quite sure who you are speaking of

[rayzor]

So...

Based on the definition everyone is using, a nickel defense is coined purely by the amount of defensive backs.

What happens if you are using a 4-2-5, but with 4 total LBs on the field? Or LB/DB hybrids? Going by the definitions these are not nickel defenses anymore, yet the personel are used in a formation that replicates a nickel defense.

Whilst I fundamentally agree that a 4-2-5 is a nickel defense, I think that some people are getting a little stuck on the '5 DBs = nickel' rule. There is a lot more to it than that.

no....wikipedia is the ultimate authority on everything. it is the ultimate source of infallible knowledge. bow to the wiki!!!!!!!!

lol "i found it on wiki so it's true."

[rayzor]

if you value wiki as your ultimate authority on al;l things football, try this one...

Nickel defense

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In American football, a nickel defense is a defensive alignment that uses five defensive backs. The fifth defensive back is called the nickelback. The defense has five defensive backs, and usually has four down linemen and two linebackers. A lineup of three down linemen and three linebackers is sometimes used, but this is often called a 3-3-5 defense instead of a Nickel defense. The four-linemen/two linebacker version of the Nickel is generally more popular because it affords the defense greater ability to stop an opponent's running game.

While the original Nickel defense utilized five defensive backs in conjunction with four down linemen and two linebackers, the modern definition calls any formation that utilizes five defensive backs a Nickel defense.

The Nickel defense originated as an innovation of Philadelphia Eagles defensive coach Jerry Williams in 1960 as a measure to defend star Tight End Mike Ditka of the Chicago Bears. The Nickel defense was later plagiarized by then Chicago Bears assistant George Allen, who came up with the name "nickel" and later marketed the idea as his own [1]. The nickel defense was popularized by the Miami Dolphins (Head Coach Don Shula and Defensive Coordinator Bill Arnsparger) in the 1970s and is now commonly employed in obvious passing situations or against a team that frequently uses four wide receiver sets on offense.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_defense

3-3-5 defense

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In American football, the 3-3-5 defense is a defensive alignment consisting of three down linemen, three linebackers, and five defensive backs.

This alignment is generally used when the defense is trying to confuse the offense by applying different blitz pressures on the offense while playing mostly zone or sometimes man coverage in the defensive backfield.

Teams that run the 3-3-5 generally use it because they are a relatively fast but smaller unit compared to the opposing offense, and they want to cause blocking assignment issues for that offense. Also, a 3-3-5 can be adjusted to a 4-3, 3-4, or 4-4 defense with the same starting players.

To effectively play the 3-3-5, the "Front 8" (e.g. the eight defensive players closest to the line of scrimmage) must be physical and tough. The three down lineman must be able to control the running lanes, execute an effective pass rush, and be able to keep the opposing offensive line occupied so that the linebackers can make plays. The two outside or "Stud" linebackers must be effective at pressuring the offensive line and reading and reacting to the play as it develops. The middle linebacker (also known as the "Mike" linebacker) must be able to effectively move in the direction the play is going (also known as "flowing to the ball") while also being able to shed blockers and make plays.

The defensive secondary must be equally capable of pressuring the offensive lineman and dropping back into pass coverage. In particular, the free safety is the most versatile athlete on the field as on any given play he can drop in coverage, pressure the quarterback, or play a "Mike" linebacker if the defense switches to a 3-4 alignment. In this alignment the free safety is generally the best playmaker and smartest athlete on the defense.

This version of the 3-3-5 removes a lineman to get the nickelback.

This version, usually called the 33 stack or 3-3-5 stack, uses an extra strong safety, and "stacks" linebackers and safetys directly behind the defensive linemen.

you have the 3-3-5 bomber and 3-3-5 stack defenses that aren't really considered nickel packages.

also many teams, including the panthers, have nickel packages that use an extra linebacker instead of an extra DB. nickel packages come in several different variations using DBs and LBs. not every package or formation using an extra DB is called a nickel.

those links that Ccat provided...if you are willing to admit that you don't know everything about the 3-3-5, check those things out. you might just learn something. i know it feels like it would kill you to admit you were wrong but it won't.

[PuntJake]

i'd kind of like to see a 5-2-4.

1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1

[MadHatter]

I never ignored it, in fact I acknowledged it as correct. It's amazing how people can not understand.

This is the point: No matter what you call it, the defense I am suggesting (give it a name) is not a defense that is normally run in the NFL. That's the whole point.

Meanwhile, everyone is arguing it with me about what this defense should be called. Yes, it is a type of nickel defense, but it is much more than that. It can also be called a 4-4 defense and it's the exact same thing. So what now, how is it a nickel then smart asses.

Bridgewater College? That is about like me claiming to play basketball...while only running games down at the local YMCA.

[Ccat]

Bridgewater College? That is about like me claiming to play basketball...while only running games down at the local YMCA.

Really? Because Bridgewater is a really good D3 teams, and unlike most people believe, there is a lot of talent at the D3 level. In fact there are a lot of athletes at the D3 level that could play D1.

Research some scores between D3 teams when opposing D2 and D1-AA teams and I think you might be surprised.

Add in the fact that my coach is highly respected among college coaches, coached at VT with Beamer, played D1 college ball himself and that my position coach played in the NFL, and you still don't think I have any credibility?

[Ccat]

if you value wiki as your ultimate authority on al;l things football, try this one...

you have the 3-3-5 bomber and 3-3-5 stack defenses that aren't really considered nickel packages.

also many teams, including the panthers, have nickel packages that use an extra linebacker instead of an extra DB. nickel packages come in several different variations using DBs and LBs. not every package or formation using an extra DB is called a nickel.

those links that Ccat provided...if you are willing to admit that you don't know everything about the 3-3-5, check those things out. you might just learn something. i know it feels like it would kill you to admit you were wrong but it won't.

I'm glad the links didn't completely go to waste . Will rep after I spread it around some more.

[MadHatter]

Really? Because Bridgewater is a really good D3 teams, and unlike most people believe, there is a lot of talent at the D3 level. In fact there are a lot of athletes at the D3 level that could play D1.

Research some scores between D3 teams when opposing D2 and D1-AA teams and I think you might be surprised.

Add in the fact that my coach is highly respected among college coaches, coached at VT with Beamer, played D1 college ball himself and that my position coach played in the NFL, and you still don't think I have any credibility?

Not impressed with a team that plays the likes of Averett, Ferrum, Lycoming, Hampden & Sydney, or Emory & Henry......they sound like bad law firms.

Remember that you were the one throwing out there that you played for some backwater D3 college in rural Virginia, thinking that people on here would be impressed.

I am more impressed with the kids here in Charlotte that play for Independence or Bulter High School. State Champions and nationally ranked in the Top 10.

[Ccat]

Not impressed with a team that plays the likes of Averett, Ferrum, Lycoming, Hampden & Sydney, or Emory & Henry......they sound like bad law firms.

I am more impressed with the kids around here that play for Independence or Bulter High School. State Champions and nationally ranked in the Top 10.

Haha shows how little you know. Maybe you should do some more research on D3 football.

[MadHatter]

Haha shows how little you know. Maybe you should do some more research on D3 football.

I looked up that backwater college....NOT IMPRESSED.

I know and worked with dozens of guys that played D1 football (Big 10, SEC, and Big 12)...not to mention two that played in the NFL.

Again, NOT IMPRESSED.

[Ccat]

I looked up that backwater college....NOT IMPRESSED.

Great reasoning behind it too. What's your football credibility again? Who do you play for?