What we need to see from Bryce and the offensive philosophy

[Carolina Cajun]

Id say thats a bit of an oversimplification.  You can develop a QB and have him play full on ball control FB, makes me think of Dak with Dallas.  The thing is you have to have to have pieces around him.  In Daks case, Zeke just ran, O-line protected, and defense played well, so as long as he didnt lose the game they won with him as a rookie.  That said, were running an overly complicated system for a Rookie QB to learn with Recievers who are trash and lost, and a pretty god awful O-line.  If we're gonna just be bad, let Bryce sling it, thats a better way to learn than have him scared constantly of making a mistake.

[Growl]

33 minutes ago, Eazy-E said:

If you go back and watch some of those plays we had a guy running deep routes but Bryce didn’t make the decision to throw that direction. Same thing happened against the Falcons once he missed his first two deep balls. 
 

You have to take risks in the NFL. Guys aren’t going to be streaking wide open down the field like they do in college. Henderson had good coverage on Olave but Carr still threw one up and his receiver made an amazing play. I have yet to see Bryce take that risk.

you can’t just “throw one on up” to any individual whose managed to fluke his way into being on an nfl field 

[chknwing]

what I need to see is protection.  Bryce has been sacked 6 times in 2 games.

[CarolinaRideorDie]

1 hour ago, Varking said:

I’m told nobody is open so there’s no downfield targets for him to play aggressive with. 

It's also time for these WR to prove that they can make a play when needed! If you ain't open, then make a contested catch! Olave was not open and pass interfered and still made that catch against CJ! Time to be a dawg! 

[CarolinaRideorDie]

1 hour ago, Eazy-E said:

 Bryce has barely even attempted to throw up a prayer in the first two games. Why? I have no idea.

I think Bryce has been coached to "take what the defense gives you and get the ball to your playmakers to make a play." The irony is that we don't have any playmakers! Bryce has to be the playmaker at this point. He had positive plays when he had to improvise with the long run and the 2 point conversion! 

I honestly think he coached to be conservative with all of these dink and dunk passes. 

[Eazy-E]

4 minutes ago, Growl said:

you can’t just “throw one on up” to any individual whose managed to fluke his way into being on an nfl field 

You kind of have no choice if you ever want the opposing defense to stop suffocating you at the line of scrimmage. 
 

Chark and Thielen didn’t fluke their way onto an NFL roster and TMJ averaged 17.5 yards per reception last year which is further than 90% of Bryce’s completions this year.

[Growl]

2 minutes ago, Eazy-E said:

You kind of have no choice if you ever want the opposing defense to stop suffocating you at the line of scrimmage. 
 

Chark and Thielen didn’t fluke their way onto an NFL roster and TMJ averaged 17.5 yards per reception last year which is further than 90% of Bryce’s completions this year.

I mean I don’t know how many different coaching staffs have to signal that Marshall isn’t getting it before you start believing them, especially after the falcons game 

[CRA]

3 minutes ago, Eazy-E said:

. 
 

Chark and Thielen didn’t fluke their way onto an NFL roster and TMJ averaged 17.5 yards per reception last year which is further than 90% of Bryce’s completions this year.

Thielen is older now.  And was always largely complimentary WR in his prime.  He is basically all we got.  And asking him to be the main dude. 

The rest? Chark, Mingo and TMJ? None of them are what I would consider good NFL route runners.  Potential.  Chark basically is a niche player. 

it’s just a weak cast.  Even our 2 TE sets are super weak because it’s features an average starting TE paired with a bad one. 

[Eazy-E]

2 minutes ago, Growl said:

I mean I don’t know how many different coaching staffs have to signal that Marshall isn’t getting it before you start believing them, especially after the falcons game 

I’m not saying he’s a world beater but what changed between last year and now? The coaches and the guy throwing the football.

Just about everyone agrees we upgraded our coaching staff so that just leaves the QB.

[Eazy-E]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

Thielen is older now.  And was always largely complimentary WR in his prime.  He is basically all we got.  And asking him to be the main dude. 

The rest? Chark, Mingo and TMJ? None of them are what I would consider good NFL route runners.  Potential.  Chark basically is a niche player. 

it’s just a weak cast.  Even our 2 TE sets are super weak because it’s features an average starting TE paired with a bad one. 

The Panthers had an even weaker cast outside of DJ Moore last season but were still able to move the ball through the air. It wasn’t great but it wasn’t this historically bad.

[Growl]

5 minutes ago, Eazy-E said:

I’m not saying he’s a world beater but what changed between last year and now? The coaches and the guy throwing the football.

Just about everyone agrees we upgraded our coaching staff so that just leaves the QB.

Well it remains to be seen if we actually upgraded our coaching staff but I’d certainly like to believe it

i don’t think your point actually holds much weight though, it isn’t as subjective as you’re making it. The physical evidence is there.

marshall had multiple chances versus Atlanta with well placed balls that he simply did not make a play on. Believe it or not he was actually in a jersey last night. 
 

you can watch for yourself and see the issue. He hasn’t tracked. He probably isn’t a fit for this offense. He’s a bigger body guy who wants to get down the field and make a play on the ball. Not a lot of short area quickness, or even awareness it looks like. Not a fit for what we do now and not a fit for Young’s skillset.

probably will be traded for a late or conditional pick if I had to guess 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Growl

[Eazy-E]

10 minutes ago, Growl said:

Well it remains to be seen if we actually upgraded our coaching staff but I’d certainly like to believe it

i don’t think you’re point actually holds much weight though, it isn’t as subjective as you’re making it. The physical evidence is there.

marshall had multiple chances versus Atlanta with well placed balls that he simply did not make a play on. Believe it or not he was actually in a jersey last night. 
 

you can watch for yourself and see the issue. He hasn’t tracked. He probably isn’t a fit for this offense. He’s a bigger body guy who wants to get down the field and make a play on the ball. Not a fit for what we do now and not a fit for Young’s skillset.

probably will be traded for a late or conditional pick if I had to guess 

 

Let me ask you this. Everyone used to talk about how DJ Moore wasn’t a true number or wasn’t worth a big contract etc

(I personally really liked him and his skill set)

It seems the front office felt a QB was more important than a dynamic receiver.

So how is it that we upgraded at RB, TE1 and our WRs minus DJ Moore (we cut Shi Smith who caught passes and scored TDs for example) yet are significant worse on offense.

Was DJ Moore really the reason why we were able to throw for more than 150 yards in a game?

Edited September 19, 2023 by Eazy-E

[Growl]

11 minutes ago, Eazy-E said:

Let me ask you this. Everyone used to talk about how DJ Moore wasn’t a true number or wasn’t worth a big contract etc

(I personally really liked him and his skill set)

It seems the front office felt a QB was more important than a dynamic receiver.

So how is it that we upgraded at RB, TE1 and our WRs minus DJ Moore (we cut Shi Smith who caught passes and scored TDs for example) yet are significant worse on offense.

Was DJ Moore really the reason why we were able to throw for more than 150 yards in a game?

The receiving corps as a whole was better with Moore, yes.

also your premise is flawed, you cannot compare 2-4 seasons worth of production to a quarterback making his first two career starts, that would be illogical.

you didn’t draft Young for this season and unless you’re prepared to take a guess as to how the offensive skill positions on this team look a few seasons from now then the comparison doesn’t work 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Growl

[Eazy-E]

2 minutes ago, Growl said:

The receiving corps as a whole was better with Moore, yes.

also your premise is flawed, you cannot compare 2-4 seasons worth of production to a quarterback making his first two career starts, that would be illogical.

We weren’t the worst team in football last year and traded up to take a QB with the first overall pick. That QB has gone on to have an abysmal start to his career and the team on offense looks worse than it did at any point last season.

Normally you make a trade like that if you feel like the QB is the missing piece but in stead it looks like we’re starting a multiple year rebuild except we no longer have the draft assets needed due to said trade up.

Rookie or not, I don’t think anyone in the Panthers organization expect Bryce to come out looking worse than Pj Walker or Sam Darnold because if they did they never make that trade.