Panthers' Offense: Some Core Concerns Surfacing Early

[LinvilleGorge]

Just now, SmokinwithWilly said:

My guess. The coaching staff may have realized that they fugged up. 

I just think they got way out over their skis talking this kid up and thought that he and the offense in general were WELL ahead of where they currently are. I really don't think they would've approached preseason the way they did if they realized how much work their was to do. Which altogether I'm not sure is any less alarming of a position to be in.

[mrcompletely11]

2 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

i havent seen the All-22 but I can say without having to see it that the issue is not that they dont trust Bryce... People were complaining on here and reddit that we werent running the ball enough... you'd think we would run the ball more if we didnt trust Bryce, right?

How many 2nd and 9,  2nd and 7s did we have last night?  It always seemed 2nd and long because we are doing a piss poor job of running.  I will rewatch at some point this week to make notes on it.

[TheCasillas]

1 minute ago, mrcompletely11 said:

How many 2nd and 9,  2nd and 7s did we have last night?  It always seemed 2nd and long because we are doing a piss poor job of running.  I will rewatch at some point this week to make notes on it.

that is reich's offense though... run to setup the pass. As i posted moments ago, if your run game doesnt get going, Frank's philosophy goes out the window.

Edited September 19, 2023 by TheCasillas

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I just think they got way out over their skis talking this kid up and thought that he and the offense in general were WELL ahead of where they currently are. I really don't think they would've approached preseason the way they did if they realized how much work their was to do. Which altogether I'm not sure is any less alarming of a position to be in.

The way they were over selling him and his intelligence after the draft into preseason was pretty over the top.

 

I mean mr scot posted a ton of articles yesterday from panther pr about how Young was always the pick and it was completely unanimous from the scouting dept to the entire staff.  It read like a damn hostage note or something. 

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, TheCasillas said:

that is reich's offense though... run to setup the pass. As i posted moments ago, if your run game doesnt get going, Frank's philosophy goes out the window.

Then thats concerning.  I will be eagerly awaiting your 22 dissection. 

[LinvilleGorge]

4 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

i can't respond to this without seeing the all-22.  "Lost" is very subjective and opinionated. We have no idea the call, the decision, what he saw or the pressure.  

Bryce changed about 8 plays at the line last night and 3 of them led to a gain or first down. So I strongly disagree with the kids gloves. In all honesty, the real question should be "are they putting too much on Bryce?"

3 out of 8 audibles led to a gain? You see that ratio as a positive?

[4Corners]

Come on guys the preseason don’t matter 

[TheCasillas]

Just now, LinvilleGorge said:

3 out of 8 audibles led to a gain? You see that ratio as a positive?

I see how you are attempting to spin that... but him checking out doesnt mean it was the wrong check. I know two of them were dropped balls and 1 of them was an over throw to a wide open Thielen. 

This is a rookie we are talking about, but for some reason you want to persecute the kid like he is a 5 year vet. 
 

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, TheCasillas said:

This is a rookie we are talking about, but for some reason you want to persecute the kid like he is a 5 year vet. 
 

But that is how he was sold to us.

The most nfl ready qb since luck was how people were describing him

[LinvilleGorge]

1 minute ago, TheCasillas said:

I see how you are attempting to spin that... but him checking out doesnt mean it was the wrong check. I know two of them were dropped balls and 1 of them was an over throw to a wide open Thielen. 

This is a rookie we are talking about, but for some reason you want to persecute the kid like he is a 5 year vet. 
 

No, I really don't. I just want to see some flashes of the talent that convinced us to mortgage the future of the franchise to trade up and get this guy and I'm not going to try to put a positive spin on some pretty alarming lack of physical tools that I'm seeing.

We crucified Teddy Bridgewater for the stuff we're seeing out of Bryce but to Teddy's credit at least he was actually efficient with it.

[TheCasillas]

Just now, mrcompletely11 said:

But that is how he was sold to us.

The most nfl ready qb since luck was how people were describing him

NFL ready doesnt mean NFL experienced. I get that we are frustrated but choking this kid to death after playing two of the top defenses in the league is just unbalanced. Especially with backup guards in the mix.  

[Mike in Raleigh]

50 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

Took a minute to digest whatever we saw on offense yesterday (It didn't taste good and didn't digest well, a big ole' sh*t)

It's not any one player performance outweighing the others.  Not here to mindlessly bash Bryce. 

I will say, it is absolutely frustrating to see him out there like he's a 3rd-4th round pick thrown in too soon.  That's not entirely on him...maybe lining up behind a guard accidentally.  Jokes out of the way, what is clear as day after 2 weeks, WR regardless, QB play regardless, this is regarding how this entire offense's architecture looks.    

We have:

Frank Reich - SB winning OC, former QB, NFL lifer

Jim Caldwell - SB winning HC, SB winning position coach, NFL lifer

Thomas Brown - Former RB, SB winning AHC/position coach, Highly hyped McVay protege

James Campen - SB winning OL coach, one of the higher regarded in the league

and then Josh McCown, former QB, testing the coaching waters.

The #1 Overall draft pick in 2023

And We have:

We have 266 passing yards after 2 games.  

--

I think how upset people about our performance so far is totally valid.  The best teams have coaches who can best cater to the talent they have.  The reactiveness and craziness here is not all justified, but it's pretty obvious why it's happening and another salty Darrin Gant bashes the fanbase article lies ahead.

It is downright inexcusable that they cannot position the players we have to create substantial yardage, sustain drives and create points right now.  We have been stifled to the effect of the 2010 lame duck season.  You look around the league and there is simply no one as limited on offense as we are right now. Not one.  Even Josh Dobbs is moving AZ down the field.  

So, my general glance, not an in depth study:

The outside zone schemes of the Shanahan and McVay disciples had defensive responses in recent years, and the NFL is already in arguably phase 3 of the modern scheme wars--that we're apparently complacent being on the sidelines from, not participating in. There's been an ongoing chess match in this regard with many of the top teams and their schemes and we can't even get in the building to try to keep up with it.  

Modern spread, wide-zone, deception, misdirection -- is not in the building

Reich framed his approach as one learning from past mistakes, being collaborative, but this looks like what he's always brought.  What it looks like (so far) is a fixed system that he's used before.  There's just no creativity I'm seeing right now, no outside runs, bunch formations, no defensive stretching stuff that keeps them guessing, condensed sets.  If there is, it's in such minor doses, that it's irrelevant.  

So, you get this type of group together, the #1 overall draft pick who can do this stuff (and showed in college), I'm sorry but you 100%, HAVE to look more competent. 

There's no excuse for looking this bad on offense.  I can buy certain aspects, such as, Bryce adjusting, having nice moments here and there and the OL having some decent stretches for backup guards playing.  But this is putrid.

It is EARLY, but this is a huge early indictment on the coaching staff.  They need to make serious adjustments and an early come to jesus about what they've implemented IF this is what they intended to deploy.  Show us why people kept saying this was some rockstar group of cats we put together.  

It's going to be a tough go against a SEA defense that's finding their identity with some quality DBs.   

Looking forward to some of the deep divers to dig into what we're seeing because, it isn't pretty by any stretch of the imagination.  

 

Overall:

Hoping for some more enjoyable football ahead.  I will say, Evero has our defense looking absolutely awesome.  Evero vs. Waldren will be fun.  

Hope Shaq heals as well as possible.  No one on the Offensive staff or players seem like sh*theads, but it looks like sh*t that's for sure. Cheers.

Evero seems like the only coach we have that isn't the Wish.com version of what we ordered.

[TheCasillas]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

No, I really don't. I just want to see some flashes of the talent that convinced us to mortgage the future of the franchise to trade up and get this guy and I'm not going to try to put a positive spin on some pretty alarming lack of physical tools that I'm seeing.

We crucified Teddy Bridgewater for the stuff we're seeing out of Bryce but to Teddy's credit at least he was actually efficient with it.

if you don't seee it some of those off balance throws he made last night and last week, then you are choosing not to like the pick. 

If that was Maye or Howell making those throws last night, you would be kicking and screaming about how amazing they are. I get your bias, but your impatience doesn't match the amount of time and effort you put into watching football.

[TheCasillas]

10 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Then thats concerning.  I will be eagerly awaiting your 22 dissection. 

im trying to get a mini version in before i have to head to the airport but for some NFL.com hasnt released the A22's yet.