Scott Fitterer Set Us Back A Decade w/ Two Trades

[FattyFatFat]

13 hours ago, JVic said:

Exactly, while I'd love a 20 year run like the Pats just have or the Chiefs are about to have, half the reason I love this franchise is because we are a complete dumpster fire most years.  The wins feel so good and the loses suck so much.   I don't even know if I would care about a team where I knew we were going to win every week, and the weeks we didn't was just some random fluke.

 

You like that we’re a dumpster fire? That’s a new one. Please give me a quarter of the successful years the pats had or the chiefs are having. 

[Ricky Spanish]

28 minutes ago, Panthers Fan 69 said:

So a fan telling another fan how to feel and be a fan?  Is that what you are saying?  You are telling me Your way of being a fan is THE ONLY way?

Not saying my way is the only way, just saying yours seems to have some tunnel vision. Complain about how bad we've been the past 5 years while talking to a lions fan and watch them give you this look:

I'm saying have some perspective and take a chill pill. There's bigger more important things in life than getting butthurt about The panthers and their rookie QB in his second game. 

[blackcat]

I'd bring back Jeans Day Jerry and Meatball Marty in a heartbeat at this point.  This is all Tepper.

[tukafan21]

7 hours ago, The Natural said:

Every single year we hear "next year's QB class is better, just wait." I'm sure once next season rolls around it'll be the same. At some point you have to start taking shots at getting your franchise QB. It's waaay too early to say either way but if Bryce turns out to not be the guy we'll try again. One year without a first isn't crippling in the slightest.

This is a fallacy that only fans believe can work out because they're so starved for a QB.

Again, I can't think of a successful massive trade up for a QB in recent memory, it NEVER works out for the team trading up.

Again, 19 teams in the league are starting QB's they drafted outside the Top 10 or acquired through other means than the draft.  And those who drafted players in the Top 10 used their own picks to do it, not traded away their franchise's future to draft the QB there.

Honestly, what is the most successful trade ups for a QB in the draft that you can think of, not counting Mahomes as they only traded 1 future first rounder to move way up the draft (27 to 10) and did that when they already had a contending roster built out and didn't have numerous holes already.

Closest would be what, the Redskins trading up for RG3 and it working for 1 season?

 

[ForJimmy]

30 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

This is a fallacy that only fans believe can work out because they're so starved for a QB.

Again, I can't think of a successful massive trade up for a QB in recent memory, it NEVER works out for the team trading up.

Again, 19 teams in the league are starting QB's they drafted outside the Top 10 or acquired through other means than the draft.  And those who drafted players in the Top 10 used their own picks to do it, not traded away their franchise's future to draft the QB there.

Honestly, what is the most successful trade ups for a QB in the draft that you can think of, not counting Mahomes as they only traded 1 future first rounder to move way up the draft (27 to 10) and did that when they already had a contending roster built out and didn't have numerous holes already.

Closest would be what, the Redskins trading up for RG3 and it working for 1 season?

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2021/story/_/id/31173355/all-29-s-nfl-teams-traded-draft-quarterback

Here they all are.  Watson, Allen, Mahomes, Flacco, Goff, Jackson lead the way with plenty of blunders as well (Darnold being one of them).  Most of them are for smaller compensation, but there just aren't many examples of giving up a lot to move to pick number 1.  Usually pick 1 isn't for sale which is what made this year so unique.  

[CBDellinger]

19 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

This is a fallacy that only fans believe can work out because they're so starved for a QB.

Again, I can't think of a successful massive trade up for a QB in recent memory, it NEVER works out for the team trading up.

Again, 19 teams in the league are starting QB's they drafted outside the Top 10 or acquired through other means than the draft.  And those who drafted players in the Top 10 used their own picks to do it, not traded away their franchise's future to draft the QB there.

Honestly, what is the most successful trade ups for a QB in the draft that you can think of, not counting Mahomes as they only traded 1 future first rounder to move way up the draft (27 to 10) and did that when they already had a contending roster built out and didn't have numerous holes already.

Closest would be what, the Redskins trading up for RG3 and it working for 1 season?

 

In the last 5 years or so its been a 50/50 proposition. I guess it just depends on your talent evaluators and the situation the qb is drafted into.

Chiefs traded up for Mahomes trade was 2 firsts and a 3rd.  Great success!!

Next year, 2018, Buffalo traded up to get Josh Allen. Went from 12 to 7 for a 1st and two back to back second round picks in that years draft.  That worked out OK. 

Same year Jets traded up for Darnold cost them a 1 and 3 seconds.  That sucked.

Since then the only other top 10 trade up was for Trey Lance.  Fart.

 

 

 

 

[tukafan21]

18 minutes ago, CBDellinger said:

In the last 5 years or so its been a 50/50 proposition. I guess it just depends on your talent evaluators and the situation the qb is drafted into.

Chiefs traded up for Mahomes trade was 2 firsts and a 3rd.  Great success!!

Next year, 2018, Buffalo traded up to get Josh Allen. Went from 12 to 7 for a 1st and two back to back second round picks in that years draft.  That worked out OK. 

Same year Jets traded up for Darnold cost them a 1 and 3 seconds.  That sucked.

Since then the only other top 10 trade up was for Trey Lance.  Fart.

 

 

 

 

Mahomes doesn’t count, trading a future 1st that would be in the high 20’s to move from 27 to 10 is nowhere in the same category as giving up a future first, two 2nds, and Moore to move from 9 to 1.  And again, that one is different as they already had a contending roster built out, their biggest/only hole was an elite QB, they weren’t giving up the picks they needed to re-stock their roster with young talent.

And Allen doesn’t really count either, they gave up two 2nds to move from 12 to 7, again, compensation nowhere remotely close to what we gave up.

Watson is another one where they gave up one future first to move from 25 to 12, hell, that’s no haul, that’s a steal to move up that much for only 1 future first.

My point wasn’t about trading up never working out, it’s when you give up substantial player/draft assets to do it that it doesn’t work out.  The massive trade ups I to the Top 3-5 to draft a QB just don’t work out, you lose too much young talent/picks in the process and continue to struggle.

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by tukafan21

[pantherclaw]

From seeing how the masses are such experts identifying suck, I wonder why they even stick around. 

Certainly don't have to. 

[ForJimmy]

34 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Mahomes doesn’t count, trading a future 1st that would be in the high 20’s to move from 27 to 10 is nowhere in the same category as giving up a future first, two 2nds, and Moore to move from 9 to 1.  And again, that one is different as they already had a contending roster built out, their biggest/only hole was an elite QB, they weren’t giving up the picks they needed to re-stock their roster with young talent.

And Allen doesn’t really count either, they gave up two 2nds to move from 12 to 7, again, compensation nowhere remotely close to what we gave up.

Watson is another one where they gave up one future first to move from 25 to 12, hell, that’s no haul, that’s a steal to move up that much for only 1 future first.

My point wasn’t about trading up never working out, it’s when you give up substantial player/draft assets to do it that it doesn’t work out.  The massive trade ups I to the Top 3-5 to draft a QB just don’t work out, you lose too much young talent/picks in the process and continue to struggle.

 

So any of them that worked out don't count?  When looking at first round picks we gave up next year's first and DJ Moore (who I could as a first)  there were a couple 2nds (one a distant future one in 25 and one late one we got from the Niners in the CMC trade).  There just aren't many cases when teams gave up a lot to move to 1 because usually that pick isn't for sale.  Too small of a sample size to make a good judgement.  

[MHS831]

Bryce Haters: 

Rookie stats

John Elway: 47.5% completions, 7 TDs 14 Interceptions  (Hall of Fame)

Peyton Manning:  56.7 % completions, 26 TDs 28 Interceptions (Hall of Fame)

Terry Bradshaw:  38.1% completions, 6 TDs 24 Interception  (Hall of Fame)

 

Baker Mayfield 63.8% completions, 27 TDs 14 Interceptions  (NFL Journeyman)

 

 

 

[scpanther22]

3 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Bryce Haters: 

Rookie stats

John Elway: 47.5% completions, 7 TDs 14 Interceptions  (Hall of Fame)

Peyton Manning:  56.7 % completions, 26 TDs 28 Interceptions (Hall of Fame)

Terry Bradshaw:  38.1% completions, 6 TDs 24 Interception  (Hall of Fame)

 

Baker Mayfield 63.8% completions, 27 TDs 14 Interceptions  (NFL Journeyman)

 

 

 

Not a Bryce hater....but its not the best sign when you have to bring up outliers like these to defend him

[tukafan21]

48 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

So any of them that worked out don't count?  When looking at first round picks we gave up next year's first and DJ Moore (who I could as a first)  there were a couple 2nds (one a distant future one in 25 and one late one we got from the Niners in the CMC trade).  There just aren't many cases when teams gave up a lot to move to 1 because usually that pick isn't for sale.  Too small of a sample size to make a good judgement.  

They don’t count because I’m not talking about comparing it to smaller trade ups, I’m talking about the massive ones.  You can’t compare this trade to ones that aren’t similar.

If we only had to give up Moore to move up, or only had to give up next years first, then yes, they’d be comparisons to look at, but we gave up WAY more than that.  If you expect 2nd rounders to be starters (which you should), then we basically gave up 5 starters to take a QB with limited physical attributes.  With one of those assets likely being a Top 5 pick next year, you can’t compare giving up a Top 5 pick (on top of all the other significant assets) that next year to KC giving up a late first or Buffalo giving up 2 seconds.

This was always why I didn’t want to trade up to #1, the cost was too high for the available prospects.  I always was much more interested in trading up to #3 to take AR and likely have been able to keep Moore and maybe even one of the 2nds.

Edited September 19, 2023 by tukafan21

[Johnstonny]

17 hours ago, QuitBitching said:

We have a rookie QB with mediocre wrs + banged up O line.lol... Give Bryce & the team time... If Bryce & the squad look this bad next yr then you can panic

...Always wait till next year....that will be the 7th losing season in a row...

[stratocatter]

13 hours ago, blackcat said:

I'd bring back Jeans Day Jerry and Meatball Marty in a heartbeat at this point.  This is all Tepper.

Every bit of it.