A loss to the Saints on MNF would be as bad a start as the Panthers can get.

[TLGPanthersFan]

23 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Against sh-t opponents...yeah. What happened when we played good teams?

And yes, if Bryce, et al don't work out, it'll be bad, but the notion that we can infer anything about that from two games is sheer stupidity.

Even if Bryce doesn’t work out it’s not like we are out 2 years worth of first round picks. Just one. 
Likely a new GM will be making that pick if it happens. 

[hepcat]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Seahawks were barely above 500 last year. The Bucs record was even worse.

I'd add regarding the Bucs, you might wanna recheck the score of that second game.

You said the Steve Wilks coached Panthers only beat “sh-t” teams which just wasn’t the case. 

 

[CRA]

2 minutes ago, hepcat said:

You said the Steve Wilks coached Panthers only beat “sh-t” teams which just wasn’t the case. 

 

Panthers beat teams with horrific run defenses.  Because Wilks played 1960s football. 

if he saw a good team, it was over in the first quarter  

we were a bad team last year.  No matter the coach.  Wilks is just a decent coach and did the only thing possible to look respectable on Sunday. 

[hepcat]

Just now, CRA said:

Panthers beat teams with horrific run defenses.  Because Wilks played 1960s football. 

if he saw a good team, it was over in the first quarter  

You play the teams on your schedule, isn’t that what everyone always says? We make excuses for when a coach wins but it doesn’t matter when we lose?

[Martin]

2 minutes ago, hepcat said:

You play the teams on your schedule, isn’t that what everyone always says? We make excuses for when a coach wins but it doesn’t matter when we lose?

In my opinion Wilkes approach could get you to 8 or 9 wins a year, but not more than that. So you are either happy with that or try something with more upside. Now that might fail, but at least you tried.

[CRA]

6 minutes ago, hepcat said:

You play the teams on your schedule, isn’t that what everyone always says? We make excuses for when a coach wins but it doesn’t matter when we lose?

You do.  And our record was a product of our schedule and how that matched up playing in a Time Machine.  So it doesn’t really mean much presently.  We weren’t playing good football last year.  We could barely compete a forward pass to finish the year. 

[CRA]

imagine:

Saints Bucs Falcons and Ron Rivera.  All 2-0.  

[Panthercougar68]

3 minutes ago, CRA said:

imagine:

Saints Bucs Falcons and Ron Rivera.  All 2-0.  

Exactly how everyone thought it would be.

[hepcat]

6 minutes ago, Martin said:

In my opinion Wilkes approach could get you to 8 or 9 wins a year, but not more than that. So you are either happy with that or try something with more upside. Now that might fail, but at least you tried.

Wilks + a good QB would have meant more. It was Ron Rivera level competency which was a huge improvement over the Matt Rhule clown show running college schemes 

[CamWhoaaCam]

13 minutes ago, CRA said:

Panthers beat teams with horrific run defenses.  Because Wilks played 1960s football. 

if he saw a good team, it was over in the first quarter  

we were a bad team last year.  No matter the coach.  Wilks is just a decent coach and did the only thing possible to look respectable on Sunday. 

Lol the Wilks slander on this board is hilarious.

 

Imagine beefing with the guy who cleaned up Rhule's poo and gave us a fighting chance to make the playoffs with Sam Darnold as his starting QB.

 

If Wilks is the HC all season we make the playoffs.

[ThPantherFan]

2 hours ago, hepcat said:

If the Panthers lose to the Saints on MNF, this is what the NFC South standings will look like:

Bucs 2-0

Falcons 2-0

Saints 2-0

Panthers 0-2 (0-2 in division)

This would be a likely insurmountable hole for a young team with a rookie QB to dig out of. All the division opponents will be 2-0, the Panthers will be 0-2 and more importantly 0-2 in the division.

Huge game in Week 2 in prime time that could determine if the team contends or flounders in the division this year. 

It wouldn't be good but I wouldn't crash and burn over it either.  I don't expect to win our division but it would be nice.  I'm anxious to see how the team develops as the season progresses.  I don't think we will have a losing season but not a championship run either.  

[ThPantherFan]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

It's year one of a rebuild 

We still have some missing pieces. 

[tukafan21]

21 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

What would you expect the staff to say?

And frankly, whether you like talking about it being a rebuild or not doesn't mean anything.

It still is.

If you're expecting a total rebuild season, you do not trade away your first round pick the next year to take a 5'10" 190 lbs QB, PERIOD.

Just because it's a new staff and we were picking #1, doesn't mean this is a re-build.

The whole point of a total rebuild is that you then use those high draft picks to re-stock your shelves.  

If the front office or staff felt this was going to be a re-building season, even if they didn't say it publicly, and then they went and made that trade, then they should be fired right now, literally, I mean today.  Fire them all before the game tomorrow and just let the players coach themselves, because that would be the worst case of self-sabatoge as a franchise could ever make and no decision makers deserve to be in their positions for one more day.

Look, I didn't want Bryce, I'll never be afraid to admit it.  I thought (and still do) he had a limited ceiling and I was never a fan of trading away the farm to take a player without the high end upside along with carrying significant injury risk.  I always felt that if we were going to make a move for a QB in the draft this year, it should have been to trade up to #3 to take AR and take that risk at a lesser cost given his significantly higher potential upside compared to Bryce.

But even saying that, once we made the trade, I was okay with taking him because I thought we did have a solid foundation in place and that he could be the type of QB that could be a winner with the right team around him while he plays PG.  What I'm not okay with is viewing this season as a learning process and okay with gifting the Bears a draft pick that would have got us a QB with higher upside than Bryce, while we lost additional key assets in the same trade.

This season's success or failure, in my mind, entirely rests on the draft pick we give to the Bears, inside the Top 10 is a failure, outside the Top 10 is acceptable, there is no middle ground for me this year, not with the QB's who will be in the 2024 draft.

Edited September 17, 2023 by tukafan21

[ThPantherFan]

2 hours ago, Jmac said:

I want to see Bryce play well and clean up his game a bit. I want to see the offense move the ball consistently and the secondary not get torched. If they lose they lose. Just give some hope that this team has a winning future ahead of them.

Very well said.