Well, John Fox looks like a idiot now...

[CRA]

Fox needs to stay one more year at the least. It will cost quite a bit to can him before his contract his up, which would only make the rebuilding process that goes with firing Fox more difficult. The defense has played phenomenally in the last few games when it mattered, and is turning into the kind of defense we hoped Meeks would bring, despite relying on zone schemes. Players that many of us wrote off as average or below average (see Godfrey and Marshall) are turning into studs in this system, as least enough so that we are winning because of it.

Offensively, the issues have been the passing game and weakness at the offensive line. These function mostly as personnel problems, and an off-season to recruit good backups and solidify the QB position would go a long way.

Replacing the head coach when the team is starting to gel this well may only be detrimental to the state of the franchise, and the ownership knows this. You need at least a year or two when rebuilding to get back up to snuff, and even then, you may find that the "new Carolina Panthers" are an ambiguous improvement over the former team.

Regardless of what happens, I think the next few years will be some interesting ones for Panthers fans. Kasay's likely retirement and the probably "sacking" of guys like Delhomme and Peppers could usher in a whole new era, with or without a change at HC.

not really.....Fox's (and Hunrey if they are a package deal) buyout really wouldn't hurt Carolina too much. That is the cost of doing business in the NFL and imo too much is made of that. If they keep Fox his effect on the pocketbook imo that will have little to do with it.

also, I don't think Godfrey or Marshall are studs at this point. Godfrey is still working on being an average S and so is Marshall in regards to being a #2.

Regardless of what occurs it is simply a matter if Carolina is happy playing Foxball for more years.....Foxball requires the start almost lining up perfectly for success. I am not a fan of Fox's conservative and stubborn ways....that won't change. It is who he is......it is why he finds success and also why he isn't consistant.

[Sandy Claws]

The point that I was making is that if Fox allows other rookies/young guys to start over vetrans it leads to the assumption that its not the fact that jake is a vetran but that Fox just belive he's a better player. If you want to argue that he made a stupid move, then IMO that has more support and argument to it, its alot harder to say he just playing him becuase he been here for a while.

I think all the throwing is much more on Qb play. A play is given and you have sevral options on who to throw it to.

Fox never called Jake the better player. He said he felt Jake was our best chance to win. That's a big difference. Jake had the bulk of the 1st team reps, was respected by the other players to the point that they made him a captain, and had a lot more time and experience with the system. Those factors could offset a little in the way of physical ability.

[CRA]

The point that I was making is that if Fox allows other rookies/young guys to start over vetrans it leads to the assumption that its not the fact that jake is a vetran but that Fox just belive he's a better player. If you want to argue that he made a stupid move, then IMO that has more support and argument to it, its alot harder to say he just playing him becuase he been here for a while.

I think all the throwing is much more on Qb play. A play is given and you have sevral options on who to throw it to.

the rookie/vet thing is overblown.....it is more about Fox committing to a guy to start a season. Once he commits to any player as the starter for a season......he won't make a move unless injury is the cause. Fox has been here for years.....and he simply has proven he won't make a move on his depth chart unless it is b/c of injury during a season.

Fox has been here too long for that to hold true....it is a huge flaw.

[KillerKat]

the rookie/vet thing is overblown.....it is more about Fox committing to a guy to start a season. Once he commits to any player as the starter for a season......he won't make a move unless injury is the cause. Fox has been here for years.....and he simply has proven he won't make a move on his depth chart unless it is b/c of injury during a season.

Fox has been here too long for that to hold true....it is a huge flaw.

I think you have explained that situation the best.

[MaineManPanther]

Fox never called Jake the better player. He said he felt Jake was our best chance to win. That's a big difference. Jake had the bulk of the 1st team reps, was respected by the other players to the point that they made him a captain, and had a lot more time and experience with the system. Those factors could offset a little in the way of physical ability.

True they don't exactly go hand in hand.

[Sandy Claws]

the rookie/vet thing is overblown.....it is more about Fox committing to a guy to start a season. Once he commits to any player as the starter for a season......he won't make a move unless injury is the cause. Fox has been here for years.....and he simply has proven he won't make a move on his depth chart unless it is b/c of injury during a season.

Fox has been here too long for that to hold true....it is a huge flaw.

You're talking about QB, a leadership position, a player voted captain by the rest of the team. We don't know if he solicited input on a QB change but some interviews (Smitty, Gross) seem to indicate that the team supported Jake. What happens if he pulls the plug before the team thinks it's appropriate?

[KillerKat]

You're talking about QB, a leadership position, a player voted captain by the rest of the team. We don't know if he solicited input on a QB change but some interviews (Smitty, Gross) seem to indicate that the team supported Jake. What happens if he pulls the plug before the team thinks it's appropriate?

Thats the problem. It shouldnt matter what the other team mates think. Fox should do what's best for the team and what's best is winning. Jake was not giving us the best chance to win regardless of what Fox said. He should've started Moore and not worry about upsetting a few players.

[CRA]

You're talking about QB, a leadership position, a player voted captain by the rest of the team. We don't know if he solicited input on a QB change but some interviews (Smitty, Gross) seem to indicate that the team supported Jake. What happens if he pulls the plug before the team thinks it's appropriate?

well, the simple fact is Fox won't make any change unless injury is the root cause for it......that applies to all positions. He won't make a change to help win and put the best guys in for the team to have success.......Fox has never made any change mid season.

how many years has Fox been here? He simply won't do it. NFL coaches do it....and there are countless examples of coaches doing it to win and have success.....not Fox.

Sure, more things go into the QB position like you suggest. But Fox's history would suggest none of that really matters b/c he won't alter his depth chart regardless.

Also, you would be hard pressed to find two Panthers who like Jake "the person" more than Smith and Gross. There endorsement of there struggling QB isn't that great of an arguement.......just them trying to stay behind Fox's guy.

[Davidson Deac II]

Thats the problem. It shouldnt matter what the other team mates think. Fox should do what's best for the team and what's best is winning. Jake was not giving us the best chance to win regardless of what Fox said. He should've started Moore and not worry about upsetting a few players.

Fans sometimes read to much into those types of interviews. Most players that have an ounce of integrity are going to support their QB in public. But we don't really know what is happening in private.

[ed bell]

well, the simple fact is Fox won't make any change unless injury is the root cause for it......that applies to all positions. He won't make a change to help win and put the best guys in for the team to have success.......Fox has never made any change mid season.

how many years has Fox been here? He simply won't do it. NFL coaches do it....and there are countless examples of coaches doing it to win and have success.....not Fox.

Sure, more things go into the QB position like you suggest. But Fox's history would suggest none of that really matters b/c he won't alter his depth chart regardless.

Also, you would be hard pressed to find two Panthers who like Jake "the person" more than Smith and Gross. There endorsement of there struggling QB isn't that great of an arguement.......just them trying to stay behind Fox's guy.

Care to elaborate on countless mid-season changes coaches have made resulting in success, and what differences those decisions made? Saying countless ought to mean that you have plenty of season changing personnel decisions made by the HC that resulted in drastic changes for the team. I'm not trying to refute your claim, but I don't think coaches have revolving doors on starting positions unless there are serious issues with the personnel. I know the Vince Young example comes to mind, but Tenn. was 0-6 and the owner chimed in. Add to that the fact that Vince was demoted in favor of Collins, so that was actually "righting the ship" to the original plan.

[CRA]

Care to elaborate on countless mid-season changes coaches have made resulting in success, and what differences those decisions made? Saying countless ought to mean that you have plenty of season changing personnel decisions made by the HC that resulted in drastic changes for the team. I'm not trying to refute your claim, but I don't think coaches have revolving doors on starting positions unless there are serious issues with the personnel. I know the Vince Young example comes to mind, but Tenn. was 0-6 and the owner chimed in. Add to that the fact that Vince was demoted in favor of Collins, so that was actually "righting the ship" to the original plan.

the point is coaches do it when guys are being are not being effective....Fox in his history Carolina hasn't. Coaches aren't all successful w/ there shuffling of a depth chart....but the fact is Fox is one of the few who refuses to ever attempt it.

I didn't say coaches have revolving doors but where there is a glaring weakness at a position there isn't a coach in the NFL with a legit resume that hasn't made some type of move before. Granted, QB is the move of all moves.....but Fox has made none over the years at any position. What coach with a long tenure with a team hasn't done it before?

[PantherDude]

Fans sometimes read to much into those types of interviews. Most players that have an ounce of integrity are going to support their QB in public. But we don't really know what is happening in private.

Yep. We can't jump into conclusion on what we read. We have to be there in person to get the real story.

[MaineManPanther]

the point is coaches do it when guys are being are not being effective....Fox in his history Carolina hasn't. Coaches aren't all successful w/ there shuffling of a depth chart....but the fact is Fox is one of the few who refuses to ever attempt it.

I didn't say coaches have revolving doors but where there is a glaring weakness at a position there isn't a coach in the NFL with a legit resume that hasn't made some type of move before. Granted, QB is the move of all moves.....but Fox has made none over the years at any position. What coach with a long tenure with a team hasn't done it before?

Dont mean to be picky, but if your going to say he never did it before...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2252768

In 2005 Fox did midway through the season switch from Davis to Foster after it was apparent Davis wasnt the same.

[CarolinaSock]

Dont mean to be picky, but if your going to say he never did it before...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2252768

In 2005 Fox did midway through the season switch from Davis to Foster after it was apparent Davis wasnt the same.

That article makes it sound like Davis basically gave the job to Foster rather than Fox making the call. It was obvious that year Davis just wasn't right after the surgery and he still started the majority of the year.