We need to clean house in the passing game.

[rayzor]

out of the retarded things in the OP i got the biggest kick out of Marshall being 2nd fiddle to Smith.

wouldn't happen. marshall > smith.

[Jangler]

Pennington at this point in his career has a worse noodle for an arm than Delhomme.

Brandon Marshall in a fat, long term contract=Trouble

mmmmmmmmmmnoodles.

[CatMan72]

Sad to say, but Smith is 30 so we need to start thinking about find his replacement as well. I agree that Moose should be gone, don't think Jarrett has had enough of an opportunity to prove what he can do in games yet, but based on what we know right now you can't pin much hope on him.

QB needs to be our first priority, any resources we have to expend should be put towards finding a QB. A good QB can make mediocre WR's look great.

[panthers55]

I am with Rayzor on this one. Of course we could upgrade but I wish people would do some research and find out who is going to be a free agent, what their contract is and other relevant data before they make a stupid post and suggest that we should pick up guys already committed to other teams or out of our price range. If you are going to trade someone like Peppers, then to whom for what for example?

There are countless threads here wanting to pick up everyone who comes available without a thought about how to do that. At least if you are going to criticze Hurney for example try and do a better job yourself.

As for my choices I think it starts with the coaches. I would get rid of Crossman and Williamson regardles of who the head coach is next year. Crossman has had sucky special teams and Williamson has failed to develop any receivers since he took over that role.

I would definitely bring in a quarterback or 3 through the draft and FA if we can find them and at least 1 or 2 receivers to compete. it is too early yet to say who since the draft isn't set and until we know if next year is capped or not, we don't know which free agents with unrestricted and which will be restricted.

As for receivers, I don't think we need big names so much as guys like Ricky Proehl who were vets closer to the end of the career than the beginning who know what they are doing and would be cheap and productive right out of the chute. Frankly a good offense and good quarterback would make our current receiving corps better. Then we need for Davidson to actually run the offense and open things up.

I don't think it is the players lack of talent for why our receivers have sucked outside of Smith and Moose. We have had guys with potential who have failed to improve over their tenure. I think we always talk about players being the answer when it may be a deeper problem more related to coaching at this point. For me I think we take a hard look at every coach this year and can the ones whose units have underperformed If Fox get canned I suspect that will happen regardless.

[CatMan72]

I am with Rayzor on this one. Of course we could upgrade but I wish people would do some research and find out who is going to be a free agent, what their contract is and other relevant data before they make a stupid post and suggest that we should pick up guys already committed to other teams or out of our price range. If you are going to trade someone like Peppers, then to whom for what for example?

There are countless threads here wanting to pick up everyone who comes available without a thought about how to do that. At least if you are going to criticze Hurney for example try and do a better job yourself.

As for my choices I think it starts with the coaches. I would get rid of Crossman and Williamson regardles of who the head coach is next year. Crossman has had sucky special teams and Williamson has failed to develop any receivers since he took over that role.

I would definitely bring in a quarterback or 3 through the draft and FA if we can find them and at least 1 or 2 receivers to compete. it is too early yet to say who since the draft isn't set and until we know if next year is capped or not, we don't know which free agents with unrestricted and which will be restricted.

As for receivers, I don't think we need big names so much as guys like Ricky Proehl who were vets closer to the end of the career than the beginning who know what they are doing and would be cheap and productive right out of the chute. Frankly a good offense and good quarterback would make our current receiving corps better. Then we need for Davidson to actually run the offense and open things up.

I don't think it is the players lack of talent for why our receivers have sucked outside of Smith and Moose. We have had guys with potential who have failed to improve over their tenure. I think we always talk about players being the answer when it may be a deeper problem more related to coaching at this point. For me I think we take a hard look at every coach this year and can the ones whose units have underperformed If Fox get canned I suspect that will happen regardless.

Crossman is a coach, not a magician... when you lack the kind of depth the Panthers do, you are going to have bad special teams.

[panthers55]

Crossman is a coach, not a magician... when you lack the kind of depth the Panthers do, you are going to have bad special teams.

There are different excuses every year for why our special teams are always lacking. Problem is that there is a pattern here of poor production in one or more areas every year that Crossman has been here. It isn't just execution but making fundamental mistakes like losing containment or taking poor angles, getting sucked inside, missed tackles and a number of issues which the poor teams do and the great special teams don't. Or maybe the good ones can recover and fill the hole in the event of a breach.

When was the last time we ran one back for a TD? Yeah I would have to look it up. And that is sad. When is the last time we gave one up? Yeah, a few games ago.

Other teams have excellent special teams and stay consistent despite roster changes. We stay consistently below average in one or more areas. This year on kick returns we are ranked 31st, on punt returns we are better at 10th. That is the thing, if we can be the top 10 in one area, why are we at the bottom in another? Inconsistent results with obviously flawed schemes since they require perfect execution to succeed.

[Jbro]

We need to bring Peyton Manning & Tom Brady in. Brady as the backup of course.

[rayzor]

Crossman is a coach, not a magician... when you lack the kind of depth the Panthers do, you are going to have bad special teams.

the problem has been their philosophy behind getting special teams players.

the situation makes me think of the bass player in the band. in many situations the bass player is just the least talented guitar player. they only view the bass guitar as a guitar with two less strings and something that you have to have and that anyone can do it. there are people, however, who only play bass and who love it. those people approach it like guitar players and piano players approach their instrument. if a band wants to be really good, why wouldn't you want to get the best player possible, the one who specializes in that one instrument who tries to be the best bass player possible? why would you forego that in favor of the guy who is just a frustrated guitar player?

okay....probably not the greatest example but you get what you pay for.

special teams is that part of the game that fox thinks you should be able to throw any guy into and expect them to do well. special teams is that position which has been largely filled by players who are only there because they aren't good enough to start. it is seen as a "dues paying" position. if you're new to the team or the league, you play special teams. it doesn't matter if you have ever done it before...you're going to play it now. you're going to play it until you are a) good enough to be a starter or there is a spot open for you as a starter. special teams is something that you are promoted out of.

why not use depth positions to bring in special teams aces instead of projects at WR, CB, LB, or whatever? for that WR 4 spot pick up kassim osgood from the chargers or sean morey from the cards. sure, they don't have much to offer as a receiving option but on punt and kick coverage...they are well worth it. where is the sense in using a roster spot on a guy who "might" have value in rare situations and in the future. use them on people that you know are going to have a very good impact on special teams.

[AKPantherFan]

do what all great teams do; build through the draft.

We need to get back into the 1st round, cut all our dead weight, and get some good picks.

[ownermode bm]

a guy who could be a 2 or 1 and not complain is vincent jackson. the problem is will they franchise him. I think not since their left tackle and sproles are also fa's.

[thunderraiden]

I am with Rayzor on this one. Of course we could upgrade but I wish people would do some research and find out who is going to be a free agent, what their contract is and other relevant data before they make a stupid post and suggest that we should pick up guys already committed to other teams or out of our price range. If you are going to trade someone like Peppers, then to whom for what for example?

There are countless threads here wanting to pick up everyone who comes available without a thought about how to do that. At least if you are going to criticze Hurney for example try and do a better job yourself.

As for my choices I think it starts with the coaches. I would get rid of Crossman and Williamson regardles of who the head coach is next year. Crossman has had sucky special teams and Williamson has failed to develop any receivers since he took over that role.

I would definitely bring in a quarterback or 3 through the draft and FA if we can find them and at least 1 or 2 receivers to compete. it is too early yet to say who since the draft isn't set and until we know if next year is capped or not, we don't know which free agents with unrestricted and which will be restricted.

As for receivers, I don't think we need big names so much as guys like Ricky Proehl who were vets closer to the end of the career than the beginning who know what they are doing and would be cheap and productive right out of the chute. Frankly a good offense and good quarterback would make our current receiving corps better. Then we need for Davidson to actually run the offense and open things up.

I don't think it is the players lack of talent for why our receivers have sucked outside of Smith and Moose. We have had guys with potential who have failed to improve over their tenure. I think we always talk about players being the answer when it may be a deeper problem more related to coaching at this point. For me I think we take a hard look at every coach this year and can the ones whose units have underperformed If Fox get canned I suspect that will happen regardless.

wow dude, where are you getting this from. Yea, i threw brandon marshalls name out there because jason avant and davone bess were my first choices but hey that made too much sense and people would critisize me for putting up to burgeoning yet unproven WR's when I'm talking about cleaning house in the Passing game. Of course I know Marshall has a lot of trouble and I would consider him a WR1 if he came here but, like I said I would get cristized for saying Steve Smith the established Car. Panther would play second fiddle to Marshall.

But I digress, I never said anything about trading Peppers, if we could get a 2nd for him, great, if not bye man. I would rather lose 2 spots on our NFL Defensive ranking than being roster locked with no free agent talent coming in. Even if this season is uncapped we dont have to money as a franchise to hire more outside of Peppers contract.

Chad Pennington, I tought was self explanitory, obviuosly he is just a placeholder for a franchise QB (think Byron Leftwich with 10 times more upside if he sparks fire, but still keeping the seat warm for the up and coming franchise QB)

I have done my research SIR, unlike most people on this board who talk of 2nd round QB this and 3rd round QB that. The chances we draft a capable QB in the 2nd or 3rd round is 1 out of 25, that is how often a 2nd or 3rd round qb develops into a franchise QB. first round QB? 1 out of 4. That isn't guess work, that is true statistics.

Now, some might say undrafted or super late round QB, yea they come on sometimes, but other than Tony Romo and Tom Brady, NONE are with the teams that drafted them. So without he NAMES this is how my list would look like.

QB1 FA with hugh upside but most likely a placeholder

QB2 Have to move into first round for QB or hold out til 2011 draft, or take a statistical long shot on a 2nd round.

QB3 Jake Delhomo (contract withstanding)

WR1 Steve Smith

WR2 FA Possession WR (Jason Avant?)

WR3 FA Jack of Trades WR (Pay MONEY)

WR4 2nd round Draft pick

WR5 Dunno. Don't care. but whoever it is will earn it so Godspeed.

The WR3 and 4 can fight it out.

TL: DR Version: All im saying, is that for Peppers salary we can get some quality play in the passing game. I don't get it either, all you guys talk poo about how bad the passing game is but I say "hey, sacrifice something we are just too good at, let it be regular and improve an area we are absymal at and let it be regular too" and you guys go ape poo.

[panthers55]

wow dude, where are you getting this from. Yea, i threw brandon marshalls name out there because jason avant and davone bess were my first choices but hey that made too much sense and people would critisize me for putting up to burgeoning yet unproven WR's when I'm talking about cleaning house in the Passing game. Of course I know Marshall has a lot of trouble and I would consider him a WR1 if he came here but, like I said I would get cristized for saying Steve Smith the established Car. Panther would play second fiddle to Marshall.

But I digress, I never said anything about trading Peppers, if we could get a 2nd for him, great, if not bye man. I would rather lose 2 spots on our NFL Defensive ranking than being roster locked with no free agent talent coming in. Even if this season is uncapped we dont have to money as a franchise to hire more outside of Peppers contract.

Chad Pennington, I tought was self explanitory, obviuosly he is just a placeholder for a franchise QB (think Byron Leftwich with 10 times more upside if he sparks fire, but still keeping the seat warm for the up and coming franchise QB)

I have done my research SIR, unlike most people on this board who talk of 2nd round QB this and 3rd round QB that. The chances we draft a capable QB in the 2nd or 3rd round is 1 out of 25, that is how often a 2nd or 3rd round qb develops into a franchise QB. first round QB? 1 out of 4. That isn't guess work, that is true statistics.

Now, some might say undrafted or super late round QB, yea they come on sometimes, but other than Tony Romo and Tom Brady, NONE are with the teams that drafted them. So without he NAMES this is how my list would look like.

QB1 FA with hugh upside but most likely a placeholder

QB2 Have to move into first round for QB or hold out til 2011 draft, or take a statistical long shot on a 2nd round.

QB3 Jake Delhomo (contract withstanding)

WR1 Steve Smith

WR2 FA Possession WR (Jason Avant?)

WR3 FA Jack of Trades WR (Pay MONEY)

WR4 2nd round Draft pick

WR5 Dunno. Don't care. but whoever it is will earn it so Godspeed.

The WR3 and 4 can fight it out.

TL: DR Version: All im saying, is that for Peppers salary we can get some quality play in the passing game. I don't get it either, all you guys talk poo about how bad the passing game is but I say "hey, sacrifice something we are just too good at, let it be regular and improve an area we are absymal at and let it be regular too" and you guys go ape poo.

And between the first line and last of that post there is alot of information but still no accountability like a GM or manager. You go a long way to say who you would like, for example, without addressing the FA rules in use due to the likely uncapped year. Are these guys available, what would they cost, what if any draft picks you would surrender versus using the draft pick itself on addressing the same position. If you are going to use Brandon Marshall as an example then tell us why you picked him or he is suited for our team versus someone else.

You didn't compare them statistically to who we have at those positions currently allowing for a comparison to see the inherent value of your argument. You didn't convince anyone to blow up the passing game versus bringing in selected guys to compete at each position.

For example we will keep Jarrett as long as he is cheap. When we have to decide to resign him is when we will likely part ways. And you didn't even consider guys like Goodson who we hope can be developed into a Wes Welker kind of guy. So forgive me if I wasn't impressed and want more substance. I figured you were up to the task.

[matrix]

Is TO a free agent next year? How about Vick?

[KARASMATIC444]

lol. let me know how that works out on madden.

brandon marshall? here? with steve smith? and then add in bess? lawdy lawdy lawdy....

yes, we do need some changes in the passing game.

new QB (duh) pick up a FA QB and draft one in the 2nd. have real competition for the starting gig. if we get a new OC and that OC is brilliant...let him choose the QB.

2 WRs brought in. one needs to be a FA (preferably jason avant or some other solid possession/slot receiver), another needs to be a big 6'2+ receiver either through FA or the draft (eric decker in the 3rd or 4th). smith stays. every other WR on the roster fights for one or two WR depth spots. best special teams player wins.

the TEs are a strength on the team. keep all 3 but line up and utilize rosario and barnidge as WRs often....especially in redzone and 3rd/4th downs.

RBS...we have good receiving options there as well and they should be used a lot. williams and stewart are both solid receivers. sutton is a good all around player with a lot of room to grow. goodson will be a very good playmaker once the game slows down for him. i still like him as a WR/RB.

one thing that is going to really help is a very good OC that is given the personnel choices he needs for his scheme and the freedom run the offense. if fox stays the only one i would feel good about coming in is weis. let weis pick his own QB, one that is smart enough to run his plays, and you have the makings of one of the best offenses in the league.

charley wies would bring in brady quin.