The Athletic: Insight to Brian Burns Contract

[ForJimmy]

Just now, Toomers said:

Why do you lose Mingo? You get pick 36 and still have 39. So they could have had D. Hall, Foskey, or Ojulari already. Plus 30M/year to spend. And if Stafford gets hurt and they wind up top 3-5, you will find out how valuable those future firsts are. Think Marvin Harrison Jr would help a young QB. 

Was it a current 2nd and 2 future 1sts?

[Toomers]

Just now, ForJimmy said:

Was it a current 2nd and 2 future 1sts?

Yes

[SmokinwithWilly]

31 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Daniel Jones just made big money and he was an average QB for one year. As for Goff he signed a 4 year 134 million contract in 2020 and the Lions are working on an extension for him now. At the time that was a premium contract for a QB. 
Burns just finished tied for 8 in the league for sacks with JJ Watt and Crosby. He is trending up and moving to his more natural position with the best DC he has worked with yet. Unfortunately he is going to demand some money. I’m just preparing people that most of these contacts will look bad until the market resets again and new contracts are given to premium pass rushers again. It’s the nature of the beast that is the growing salary cap. 

I understand he's gonna get paid, but the situation itself was foreseeable. It's a massive fuggup by Fitts. Burns and his agent see him as a Bosa level player. Burns is not that level of player based on his production. He's never been an all-pro much less a DPOY. He's more in line with a Maxx Crosby than a Bosa or TJ Watt. Hurney gave contracts based on potential and less on production and we've all seen how terribly so many of those turned out. 

At the time of the trade offer, several people on this board recognized that if we didn't take the trade we were going to have to pay Burns massively and we were going to lose any leverage based on the offer that was made. The closest trade offer to what the Rams offered was Khalil Mack a couple of years ago when he was in his prime and feared as a defender across the NFL. Burns has never been that level of player yet. We knew he was going to want a Bosa level contract when he's never had Bosa level production. Part of Fitts job is to be able to recognize this and he hasn't done a good job in this case. I've been a Fitts supporter but I'm really starting to think he's in over his head. A couple panic trade ups in the 3rd back to back years and now this contract situation just doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling moving forward.  

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, Toomers said:

Yes

I heard they mentioned a 2nd too but I assumed it was a future pick as well. Where are you getting the $30 million we save right now? Regardless you better hope that 2nd round rookie develops fast or our pass rush will be nonexistent.  Having Young constantly playing from behind isn’t good for his development or health either. Assuming Stafford gets hurt is also a gamble (though a likely one it seems), but Burns rushing the QB with Donald could be a scary combo. 

At the time I was for the trade, but I can understand passing on it. Burns entering his peak as a top 10 pass rusher is worth more to a GM than a 2nd and some future 1sts one and two years down the line. I don’t know how short of a leash Tepper has for Fitt. It’s not too far off from what the Texans gave up for Anderson (who is unproven but will be on a rookie contract). 

[Castavar]

32 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Imagine trading your homegrown talent and best defensive player for some unknown picks.

 

The thought process within this fanbase is baffling. I truly don't understand some of these comments. Go to any other sub and ask them to trade their best defensive player for some picks and see how that goes...

 

With a straight face you're suggesting we trade our best defensive player who's just entering his prime?

 

 

 

If he's asking for Nick Bosa money?! Yes. I've been adamant about my feelings on Burns. He is an above average pass rusher who is below average in run defense. I have also never seen him absolutely take over a game and willed us to a win, which is what he is going to be paid to do. What happens when we pay him all that money and STILL get gashed in the run game? I'm not paying him as one of the best DEs in the game if he only affects passing downs. We might as well kept Reddick for less money if that were the case.

And YES, I 100% would have taken those two 1st rounders (and a 2nd rounder was rumored in the deal) for a pass rushing specialist.

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Castavar

[Castavar]

1 minute ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Why do you keep saying this?

 

Also if we trade Burns I have one trade in mind. Call up the Bengals and see if you can get Higgins and a future 1st for Burns. Get Bryce his #1 WR and draft a pass rusher next year.

 

 

 I would do that trade in a heart beat.

[carpanfan96]

2 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Why do you keep saying this?

 

Also if we trade Burns I have one trade in mind. Call up the Bengals and see if you can get Higgins and a future 1st for Burns. Get Bryce his #1 WR and draft a pass rusher next year.

 

 

Because he is asking to be paid like a top edge rusher and word is that he wants 28-30m a season. 

[panthers55]

Of course on paper we can make the contract whatever Burns wants as long as it isn't all guaranteed.  If we can get some incentives in the contract why not give him what he wants if he puts up other worldly numbers like he thinks he can. If he puts up good numbers he gets a bunch but not all the incentives he could. If he drops offs, he get his base pay. Let him gamble on himself and if he puts up then pay the man. If not he is still getting paid commensurate with their production.

[ForJimmy]

2 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

I understand he's gonna get paid, but the situation itself was foreseeable. It's a massive fuggup by Fitts. Burns and his agent see him as a Bosa level player. Burns is not that level of player based on his production. He's never been an all-pro much less a DPOY. He's more in line with a Maxx Crosby than a Bosa or TJ Watt. Hurney gave contracts based on potential and less on production and we've all seen how terribly so many of those turned out. 

At the time of the trade offer, several people on this board recognized that if we didn't take the trade we were going to have to pay Burns massively and we were going to lose any leverage based on the offer that was made. The closest trade offer to what the Rams offered was Khalil Mack a couple of years ago when he was in his prime and feared as a defender across the NFL. Burns has never been that level of player yet. We knew he was going to want a Bosa level contract when he's never had Bosa level production. Part of Fitts job is to be able to recognize this and he hasn't done a good job in this case. I've been a Fitts supporter but I'm really starting to think he's in over his head. A couple panic trade ups in the 3rd back to back years and now this contract situation just doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling moving forward.  

No I completely agree he isn’t on Bosa’s level and I don’t think anyone can argue that. Crosby is a good comp, but all I’m saying is he will make more than Crosby if that’s his comp. Just like Crosby would make more than Burns if he signed a new contract a year later. Each year the contracts rise. It we get Burns for 26-27 a year it would be similar to Crosby’s 23.5 a year he signed last year. 
Yeah the trade would have been nice for people patient enough to see the long term results. Huddlers can’t get through preseason without explosive overreactions. I’m not not sure Fitt has the time to let those future picks develop into solid players as well. It sucks but I understand why he turned in down. 

[Panthering]

Probably should’ve taken that trade with the Rams. But Burns is still really good, we should be paying our best players anyways with a QB on a rookie contract. 

[ForJimmy]

5 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Why do you keep saying this?

 

Also if we trade Burns I have one trade in mind. Call up the Bengals and see if you can get Higgins and a future 1st for Burns. Get Bryce his #1 WR and draft a pass rusher next year.

 

 

Higgins AND a future 1st wouldn’t happen. Plus Higgins is about to need a new contract as well. He is a great WR but have Chase draft the top defenses plus a safety every game makes life easier for him. I’m not sure he has the same results as a definite WR1 on an offense.

Now imagine every QB we play having 5 seconds of a clean pocket because we have no pass rush. Imagine Young taking extra hits because we are constantly playing from behind. Burns is still very valuable to this franchise.

[carpanfan96]

2 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Word is you taking random info off the street.

 

Cite some sources on the contract negotiations and I will believe it. Until then we are just assuming he's asking for that.

 

Also someone said last week he was asking for 25mil.

 

"Word is" someone is lying...

It's in this threads article that he's asking for Nick Bosa money. In June he said he wanted to be one of the highest paid edge players in the NFL.

Edited September 5, 2023 by carpanfan96

[panthers55]

Fitterer is going to get this done shortly and Burns will get around 26 million per year average. Hopefully it isn't all guaranteed and there is a base around what we want which is 23  and another possible 6 million in incentives for reaching certain levels. A win win. Meanwhile Burns wants it all guaranteed I am sure

[Toomers]

13 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I heard they mentioned a 2nd too but I assumed it was a future pick as well. Where are you getting the $30 million we save right now? Regardless you better hope that 2nd round rookie develops fast or our pass rush will be nonexistent.  Having Young constantly playing from behind isn’t good for his development or health either. Assuming Stafford gets hurt is also a gamble (though a likely one it seems), but Burns rushing the QB with Donald could be a scary combo. 

At the time I was for the trade, but I can understand passing on it. Burns entering his peak as a top 10 pass rusher is worth more to a GM than a 2nd and some future 1sts one and two years down the line. I don’t know how short of a leash Tepper has for Fitt. It’s not too far off from what the Texans gave up for Anderson (who is unproven but will be on a rookie contract). 

   The 2nd was pick 36 this year. Plus two probable top 10 picks. Which can become any vet star in a trade, without the guarantees from a signing bonus. And if you had room for Burns in the budget, since he’s gone it can go towards replacing him or using at another position. 1 great or two very good vet players. 3 rookie contracts of top caliber players. Or Burns at 28-30M. What’s better for the team.