Why is Delhomme not on IR?

[Zod]

If John FOx is coach, for anyone to come in and "compete for a starting job" is a complete farce.

[Shockatelly]

The only rationale I have for seeing the current regime hit the road is for a change of pace. I mean, if you're not winning, Fox ball is pretty damn hard to watch. And we seem to see that movie at least every other year. On the other hand, they could bring in someone else that performs even worse. Oh my heavens, what to do?

Think I'll relax and have a nice piece o pie.

[panthers55]

See that is the thing, you do the EXACT same thing I do but from the opposite side......you choose to look at your "facts" through your own biased viewpoint.....as I do the same. Only difference is you think your opinion is fact....and I think mine is an opinion.

Wrong again, both are opinions. Mine is fact based yours is based on speculation.

[Mother Grabber]

I've thought about that. It'd actually be nice to see a somewhat happy ending to his time here.

I think it's more a combo of holding out hope and remembering that they were too quick to pull the trigger on McCown.

6-10 is a happy ending?

[Ricky Spanish]

Wrong again, both are opinions. Mine is fact based yours is based on speculation.

I think he just likes arguing. the drive by drive summary was very compelling for your argument.

[CRA]

Wrong again, both are opinions. Mine is fact based yours is based on speculation.

incorrect.

if Fox legitmately was committed to run thne we would not have seen what occured in the Phins game, Jets, Patriots, Eagles, etc. All games he opted to pointlessly put too much on the weakness of the team.....I can accept his poor coaching in the Eagle game but for those after it was too obvious how this team simply can not win.

Also, the play by play you posted just shows how Fox likes to pretend he has an average passing attack. 1 time he ran on both 1st and 2nd down....that isn't a team that leans on it's run game....2nd and long is not a poor time to run on this team.....not when DeAngelo is your back and Jake/Moore are your QBs.

Best win of the season was against AZ....look at the play by play...

1st series.

Ran on 1st

Ran on 2nd and long(10)

Ran on 3rd and long - 1st down.

same series later

Ran on 1st

Ran on 2nd and long

....drive end in a TD.

Multiple times that game we ran on 2nd and 3rd and long....and had success.....and it was the best win of the season....and they were #1 against the run. One of the few times Fox played to the strength of the team regardless of the opponent and downs.....and it was the best upset we had.

So no, I don't just like to argue....it is fact this team has to run to win this year and this gives us the best chance to win.

[Jase]

So that Jake can retire with dignity after the season without having to pay him an injury settlement?

[MaineManPanther]

Delhomme is not on IR because:

If Moore goes down we would then only have Feely and no one else behind him.

His injury is not sevre enough.

There is nothing to gain by putting him on.

[MaineManPanther]

incorrect.

if Fox legitmately was committed to run thne we would not have seen what occured in the Phins game, Jets, Patriots, Eagles, etc. All games he opted to pointlessly put too much on the weakness of the team.....I can accept his poor coaching in the Eagle game but for those after it was too obvious how this team simply can not win.

Also, the play by play you posted just shows how Fox likes to pretend he has an average passing attack. 1 time he ran on both 1st and 2nd down....that isn't a team that leans on it's run game....2nd and long is not a poor time to run on this team.....not when DeAngelo is your back and Jake/Moore are your QBs.

Best win of the season was against AZ....look at the play by play...

1st series.

Ran on 1st

Ran on 2nd and long(10)

Ran on 3rd and long - 1st down.

same series later

Ran on 1st

Ran on 2nd and long

....drive end in a TD.

Multiple times that game we ran on 2nd and 3rd and long....and had success.....and it was the best win of the season....and they were #1 against the run. One of the few times Fox played to the strength of the team regardless of the opponent and downs.....and it was the best upset we had.

So no, I don't just like to argue....it is fact this team has to run to win this year and this gives us the best chance to win.

Jets game: Ran 25 times for 75 yards for 3 yards per carry. No td's. Yes Delhomme wasnt getting us anywhere, but niether was the running game. Nothing was working on offence.

Philly game: Ran 28 times for 77 yards for 2.75 yards per carry. Oline was getting blown up on both sides, Eagles were holding there own and kept getting a bigger lead. Running was not going to save us.

New England: Ran 24 times for 125. As P55 put it the we got in sevral bad siutaions. Just because Fox passed twice in a row doesnt mean he was dumb or foolish. You have to change it up.

The only one I could really see was the Phins game. But even then we had two rookie corners and just barley missed on some big plays.

[panthers55]

incorrect.

if Fox legitmately was committed to run thne we would not have seen what occured in the Phins game, Jets, Patriots, Eagles, etc. All games he opted to pointlessly put too much on the weakness of the team.....I can accept his poor coaching in the Eagle game but for those after it was too obvious how this team simply can not win.

Also, the play by play you posted just shows how Fox likes to pretend he has an average passing attack. 1 time he ran on both 1st and 2nd down....that isn't a team that leans on it's run game....2nd and long is not a poor time to run on this team.....not when DeAngelo is your back and Jake/Moore are your QBs.

Best win of the season was against AZ....look at the play by play...

1st series.

Ran on 1st

Ran on 2nd and long(10)

Ran on 3rd and long - 1st down.

same series later

Ran on 1st

Ran on 2nd and long

....drive end in a TD.

Multiple times that game we ran on 2nd and 3rd and long....and had success.....and it was the best win of the season....and they were #1 against the run. One of the few times Fox played to the strength of the team regardless of the opponent and downs.....and it was the best upset we had.

So no, I don't just like to argue....it is fact this team has to run to win this year and this gives us the best chance to win.

Great job of kitchen sinking. yeah when you throw out everything including the kitchen sink and hope that something works.

Using the Arizona play by play as a justification that we should have done something different in the New England game is clever. At first glance since they are both play by play they appear somewhat related. But it is an illusory correlation- two things which appear correlated but actually are unrelated to each other.

Why unrelated? Because it isn't as simple of just running the ball or not.

You don't just play to your strengths but take what the defense gives you. We couldn't run against New England whereas we could against Arizona.

Simplistic logic also doesn't factor in that the offensive line for the Panthers which played in the Arizona game was much better than the line that played in NE. With Gross out, Wharton playing out of position, Otah having shoulder and knee problems against NE, we couldn't just run over people like we did when everyone was healthy.

You use facts but then make simplistic conclusions which don't account for any of the complexities of the game. Success running requires favorable conditions to pound the rock. Such as being in favorable down and distances, facing a defensive coverage which favors running versus passing, having makeable third downs and then extending dries so you have more downs to develop a rhythm in the passing or running game. All things we did against Arizona and didnt do against new England.

No one is saying we shouldn't run the ball, certainly not me. But you have morphed the original argument which was that Fox should have run the ball more against New England to a discussion of how running against Arizona worked and we got plenty of yards so we need to do it all the time. Moore's inconsistency, penalties and too many negative and stuffed runs were why we couldn't run againt NE. The information about Arizona was interesting but totally irrelevant to the argument.

Whether we run on Sunday night against the Vikings, for example, will have a lot more to do with who we are facing, the defensive front we are facing, and the ability of Schwartz to play right tackle, then how well we blocked against Arizona weeks ago.

Seriously this is all I have to say. I tried to do this through PMs but you want a public forum. I am just not going to keep going back and forth to everyone's amusement as you shift the discussion each time you lose another argument. Again feel free to get the last word and save face. It appears more important to you than me. I'm sure you will follow me to other threads.

[pstall]

Go back and look at the play by play.

On the second drive- Moore throws an incomplete pass and Williams runs for only 4 yards setting up a 3rd and six which is a passing down for most any team.

On the third drive- we run 3 times in a row. Williams goes for 13 yards on first down- then he gets -2 yards on first down and no gain on second down. Setting us up in third and long again.

On the fourth drive Stewart runs for 7 yards and Smith catches the TD on second down.

On the fifth series we throw incomplete to Moose, then Stewart gets stuffed for -2 yards and with a holding penalty it is 2nd and 20. Stewart runs for 8 yards and it is 3rd and 12. Moore is charged with another delay penalty and it is 3rd and 17 from our own 14. So Sutton runs the draw for 6 yards and we punt again.

It wasn't until our 6th drive that we had a makeable third down to run the ball and we did with Smith for 2 yards. What set it up? A pass for 7 yards to Barnidge. Otherwise both Williams and Stewart ran it for 2 yards apiece on that drive.

So we have run the ball so far for a total of 10 times for 42 yards. Sounds good right? Not when you see that we have gotten 2 first downs in 6 drives and failed to convert on 5 out of 6 straight third downs. The TD was the only bright spot which was a pass.

If you look at the play by play you realize that we passed because we were in third and long as much because our running didn't work or with penalties we were taken out of a makeable running situation.

NO one is defending Fox so much as using logic and reality based on the facts instead of blind criticisms with no basis. But continue to argue on, basing your comments on everything but the facts hasn't stopped you yet.

For some reason this jumped out. You mean Davison doesn't script the first series?

I guess I assumed he did. Isn't scripting the first series more or less the standard now?

[panthers55]

For some reason this jumped out. You mean Davison doesn't script the first series?

I guess I assumed he did. Isn't scripting the first series more or less the standard now?

I think he probably does. but that assumes that the plays work as you scripted them and you move down the field like they did against Tampa. Moore came out so jittery and off target in the first quarter, that certainly wasn't planned. I wonder whether they actually have plays they are going to run no matter what, or whether it is a general idea of things with lots of different variations based on the defensive alignments.

[CRA]

Jets game: Ran 25 times for 75 yards for 3 yards per carry. No td's. Yes Delhomme wasnt getting us anywhere, but niether was the running game. Nothing was working on offence.

Philly game: Ran 28 times for 77 yards for 2.75 yards per carry. Oline was getting blown up on both sides, Eagles were holding there own and kept getting a bigger lead. Running was not going to save us.

New England: Ran 24 times for 125. As P55 put it the we got in sevral bad siutaions. Just because Fox passed twice in a row doesnt mean he was dumb or foolish. You have to change it up.

The only one I could really see was the Phins game. But even then we had two rookie corners and just barley missed on some big plays.

Philly game is misleading.....game was over at the half. The 2nd half when the game was out of reach is where the yards per carry number got skewed.....as Carolina ran well in the 1st and 2nd quarter.....breakdown the numbers. Pointless throwing and why we got blownout early with a running game working.

NE- you can look at other games like AZ where "throwing downs" for others are still best for Carolna to run considering our personel.

and the Phins game was another obvious one.

[pstall]

I think he probably does. but that assumes that the plays work as you scripted them and you move down the field like they did against Tampa. Moore came out so jittery and off target in the first quarter, that ceratinly wasn't planned. I wonder whether they actually have plays they are going to run no matter what, or whether it is a general idea of things with lots of different variations based on the defensive alignments.

Right. Hopefully they have blocks based on down and distance that are money/lock plays. Otherwise..yikes..just rolling the dice each time.