REPORT: Panthers and Brian Burns not at all close to extension

[Smithers]

2 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Huge difference between Burns and those 2 guys

Evans is 30 and was never going to hold out as he knew the Bucs weren't going to re-sign him anyways, he just put a deadline on it to eliminate contract talk during the season.  Higgins is a key cog on a very real SB contender who also knows there is about a 99% chance they won't re-sign, holding out would do him no good when his path to a big contract is balling out this year and hitting free agency next year.

Burns is a player the team wants to keep and is also looking at a contract that likely would be about 30% more per season than Higgins would be looking at, all while playing a position that is much more physically demanding on your body and thus more likely to see an injury.

And nobody has said he discussions haven't been productive or amicable, but I struggle to see a scenario where after all this time we couldn't agree to a deal before they flew to Atlanta, and then are able to work one out tonight or in the morning.

He’s been practicing.  It’s not as if he has been avoiding all risk of injury all summer long like Jones and Bosa.  

[uncfan888]

If burns sits out and we start 0-1, I don't want to ever hear him say "we're building something" again. But fitterer has screwed the pooch on this whole situation from the start

[SgtJoo]

Why would he practice for 3 days and make the trip just to not play?

[KSpan]

12 minutes ago, Smithers said:

Good thing you aren’t running the team.  For all we know, the conversations have been productive and amicable.  Mike Evans and Tee Higgans don’t have new contracts and both are playing tomorrow.  My gut says Burns plays.  He wants to be out there with his guys. 

It's also possible that Burns has been operating in good faith and the front office isn't holding up their side of some deal. That's total hypothetical on my part and I don't think it's the case but just a possibility showing hoe we have no idea why this is playing out as it is.

Edited September 9, 2023 by KSpan

[ForJimmy]

Burns has said he has to be here and will be part of something special. He has practiced with the team and is traveling with the team as well. I don’t think he is sitting. Anyone saying he is are 100% guessing/assuming. 

[therealmjl]

1 minute ago, SgtJoo said:

Why would he practice for 3 days and make the trip just to not play?

The same reason he was at camp for 2 weeks and said he wasn’t holding out and then didn’t do any team related activities (aka held out, or “in”) the following week.

No one knows.

Edited September 9, 2023 by therealmjl

[tukafan21]

7 minutes ago, Smithers said:

He’s been practicing.  It’s not as if he has been avoiding all risk of injury all summer long like Jones and Bosa.  

Yes, players get hurt in practice at times, but the risk is supremely small in doing so.

I'd have had no issue with Jones or Bosa holding out if I was a fan of their teams, just as I wouldn't have had issue with Burns doing it either.  I take issue with Burns playing the "I'm doing what's best for the team" card all offseason to then threaten to sit out the week before the game, it screams dirty negotiating tactics to me.

Had he been holding out, we'd have been preparing for months to play without him, but by doing what he did, he's holding our defense hostage with this threat because he knows we're not ready to play without him.  It's the opposite of doing what's best for the team, even if he plays in the end, because he's causing a serious distraction at the moment.

And again, stop comparing Burns to any of these players as not a single one of them is a fair comparison.  Bosa/Jones completely held out so their teams knew what was up the whole time.  While Evans/Higgins just aren't even remotely similar situations as neither team wants to bring them back next year anyways, so holding out by either of them only hurts themselves as they can't show out for a new contract by another team in the offseason, all they could have done would be to hold out to force a trade.

Edited September 9, 2023 by tukafan21

[tukafan21]

2 minutes ago, KSpan said:

It's also possible that Burns has been operating in good faith and the front office isn't holding up their side of some deal. That's total hypothetical on my part and I don't think it's the case but just a possibility showing hoe we have no idea why this is playing out as it is.

It's fair to point out, but like you said, there just isn't a way this is the case.

How could the team not hold up their side of some deal short of them saying, "don't worry, no matter what we'll give you a contract offer that you'd accept before week 1 starts"

As that's not something they could say as it would screw them even worse in their negotiating position than they already did by turning down that trade.

Not saying they're offering something fair, maybe they're not, but there is not way they had some sort of deal with Burns that they're now reneging on.

[PanthersAlv]

https://x.com/josephperson/status/1700597756539121859?s=46&t=2gmxKZqxrZpjcpOBCpqipA
 

Here’s to hoping…

Edited September 9, 2023 by PanthersAlv

[ForJimmy]

2 minutes ago, therealmjl said:

The same reason he was at camp for 2 weeks and said he wasn’t holding out and then didn’t do any team related activities (aka held out, or “in”) the following week.

No one knows.

He has done everything that is required from him to play and avoid any fines. I don’t know why he would sit and take a fine at this point…

[tukafan21]

Can we also please get a clarification on "Burns has practiced all week" because I keep seeing people say that.

But I swear, I feel like I've also seen reports that he's only done individual drills and nothing with the full defense.

Which if it's the case, then that's not him practicing, it's him doing the bare minimum to keep his leverage at maximum levels.

[Smithers]

1 minute ago, tukafan21 said:

Can we also please get a clarification on "Burns has practiced all week" because I keep seeing people say that.

But I swear, I feel like I've also seen reports that he's only done individual drills and nothing with the full defense.

Which if it's the case, then that's not him practicing, it's him doing the bare minimum to keep his leverage at maximum levels.

Media isn’t allowed in to practice sessions.  The team reported that he was a full participant, and Reich said Friday he “looked good” in all sessions.  

[Panthercougar68]

Inb4 the Will Kunkle throwing thing things against the wall tweet

Edited September 9, 2023 by Panthercougar68

[SmokinwithWilly]

15 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

You can't say you get what I'm saying, agree with it, but say you were only saying what you did to simplify it.

Because the details on that particular aspect of contracts is EXACTLY what matters here.

You're saying that the only thing hat matters is the guarantee, but it's not because of what I laid out.  The practical guarantee matters, which you seem to acknowledge, so you can't then state "the only thing that matters is the guaranteed number" in the way you did.

They're two completely different things that 100% change things.

We're talking multi level contracts here which I do understand and I think we're actually looking at things the same but possibly from different perspectives and using different terms. There are different ways to guarantee money whether it's through a signing bonus, penalty clause, etc.  Like you said in your example, it's an $80M guarantee instead of a 40 all in how it's worded because no team would eat that type of hit after 1 bad season. 

Burns may be looking for a 100m guaranteed no matter how it's worded. Agents and teams manipulate these numbers through the terms. In the end, no matter what happens, through the terms of the contract, he's "guaranteed" to make at least 100m. That's what I mean by the guaranteed number is the only one that matters. Everything else can be twisted, contorted, reworked, restructured, whatever. His contract is still worded so he's "guaranteed" to earn 100m at a minimum, no matter what.