REPORT: Panthers and Brian Burns not at all close to extension

[SmokinwithWilly]

11 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Again, no it's not, it's why I'm thinking at this point we just need to go out and use Tepper's very deep pockets to steal one of the better cap managers in the league, say from the Saints or Eagles.

Like I posted a little earlier, guaranteed money matters, but the "realistic guaranteed" money is what matters more, and that comes down to how the contract is structured.

Teams can structure these contracts with the guaranteed money, but in a way that there is no way for the team to get out of it before other portions of the contract become guaranteed.

For example....

Say a team signs someone to a 4 year, $100 million dollar contract with only $40 million guaranteed paid upon signing.....

It can be structured to where year 1 and 2 have the player's salary being the vet minimum while year 3 is a salary of say $40 million and then $20 million in year 4.  

The player can't be cut after year 1 as they'd then have paid the player the $40 million guaranteed money while then taking on a $30 million dead cap hit.  No team is cutting an elite player after 1 bad season when they'd then have to carry a $30+ million cap hit while doing so.

They then also worked the contract so that Year 3 with the big salary is guaranteed if the player is on the roster Day 1 of the league year following the first year of the contract.  At that time they then are able to re-structure the contract to convert that $40 million salary to a roster bonus.  If the player is performing as expected, it can be done in an extension that really pushes that cap down the road, if not, it can be done with voidable years to still push it down the road without actually extending the player.

In that example, they only got $40 million guaranteed, but in reality, it was actually an $80 million guarantee with how it was structured because everyone knew there was no way they'd be cut after one season and thus trigger the extra $40 in guaranteed money.

I get what you're saying but I was trying to simplify it because NFL contracts are such a complex thing. Guarantees are what matters however they're structured. 

[therealmjl]

 

[Sean Payton's Vicodin]

Hold off trading 2 firsts for this guy and then can't extend him. And Panther fans kiss this guys ass because their standards are in the dirt. Just lmao

Marty Hurney >>>> Fitt 

[CRA]

28 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

Ridiculous to just throw away home grown talent like that, it’s obvious that the team wants Burns here and they will pay him appropriately.  Whether you think he is worth it or not doesn't mean anything

He isn’t home grown talent.  It’s the NFL.

You don’t just pay guys whatever they demand because you drafted them.  What you pay matters in a cap driven league.  It’s dictates how much talent you end up being able to put on the field. 
 

[tukafan21]

12 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

I get what you're saying but I was trying to simplify it because NFL contracts are such a complex thing. Guarantees are what matters however they're structured. 

You can't say you get what I'm saying, agree with it, but say you were only saying what you did to simplify it.

Because the details on that particular aspect of contracts is EXACTLY what matters here.

You're saying that the only thing hat matters is the guarantee, but it's not because of what I laid out.  The practical guarantee matters, which you seem to acknowledge, so you can't then state "the only thing that matters is the guaranteed number" in the way you did.

They're two completely different things that 100% change things.

[Smithers]

Burns making the trip.  Good news!  
 

https://x.com/josephperson/status/1700597756539121859?s=46

Edited September 9, 2023 by Smithers

[tukafan21]

5 minutes ago, Smithers said:

burns making the trip.  Good news!  
 

https://x.com/josephperson/status/1700597756539121859?s=46

I don't think so, I don't think he plays without a deal done, if he travels and then ends up not playing, it will be a significantly larger cloud hanging over the team tomorrow than if he just didn't make the trip.

This whole situation is really starting to make me angry with how Burns has handled it.  If he was going to hold out, just do it from the start and I'd have no issue with him doing so.

Really not a fan of him talking all summer about how we're building something here and he knows it's important for him to be here and be a part of it, only to threaten to hold out in the days leading into the first game.

If I'm running the team and he's not signed before the game starts tomorrow and playing, then he's never suiting up for the Panthers again, he'd be inactive until a trade is able to be worked out (and again, I've been someone who has been screaming for months to just pay him what he wants, so I don't say this lightly).

Edited September 9, 2023 by tukafan21

[Gerry Green]

3 minutes ago, Smithers said:

Burns making the trip.  Good news!  
 

https://x.com/josephperson/status/1700597756539121859?s=46

 

People seem to be thinking he isn't going to play without a contract. So, we will have to see how tomorrow goes.

[Smithers]

4 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

I don't think so, I don't think he plays without a deal done, if he travels and then ends up not playing, it will be a significantly larger cloud hanging over the team tomorrow than if he just didn't make the trip.

This whole situation is really starting to make me angry with how Burns has handled it.  If he was going to hold out, just do it from the start and I'd have no issue with him doing so.

Really not a fan of him talking all summer about how we're building something here and he knows it's important for him to be here and be a part of it, only to threaten to hold out in the days leading into the first game.

If I'm running the team and he's not signed before the game starts tomorrow and playing, then he's never suiting up for the Panthers again, he'd be inactive until a trade is able to be worked out (and again, I've been someone who has been screaming for months to just pay him what he wants, so I don't say this lightly).

Good thing you aren’t running the team.  For all we know, the conversations have been productive and amicable.  Mike Evans and Tee Higgans don’t have new contracts and both are playing tomorrow.  My gut says Burns plays.  He wants to be out there with his guys. 

[therealmjl]

13 minutes ago, Smithers said:

Burns making the trip.  Good news!  
 

https://x.com/josephperson/status/1700597756539121859?s=46

 

[therealmjl]

Burns has no reason to play tomorrow

[Soul Rebel]

4 minutes ago, Smithers said:

Good thing you aren’t running the team.  For all we know, the conversations have been productive and amicable.  Mike Evans and Tee Higgans don’t have new contracts and both are playing tomorrow.  My gut says Burns plays.  He wants to be out there with his guys. 

[tukafan21]

6 minutes ago, Smithers said:

Good thing you aren’t running the team.  For all we know, the conversations have been productive and amicable.  Mike Evans and Tee Higgans don’t have new contracts and both are playing tomorrow.  My gut says Burns plays.  He wants to be out there with his guys. 

Huge difference between Burns and those 2 guys

Evans is 30 and was never going to hold out as he knew the Bucs weren't going to re-sign him anyways, he just put a deadline on it to eliminate contract talk during the season.  Higgins is a key cog on a very real SB contender who also knows there is about a 99% chance they won't re-sign, holding out would do him no good when his path to a big contract is balling out this year and hitting free agency next year.

Burns is a player the team wants to keep and is also looking at a contract that likely would be about 30% more per season than Higgins would be looking at, all while playing a position that is much more physically demanding on your body and thus more likely to see an injury.

And nobody has said he discussions haven't been productive or amicable, but I struggle to see a scenario where after all this time we couldn't agree to a deal before they flew to Atlanta, and then are able to work one out tonight or in the morning.

If Burns was going to play without a new contract (as everyone assumed he would all offseason if one wasn't reached) he wouldn't have done what he did this week and threaten not to play.

The only way I think he plays tomorrow is if this was literally a plan between the team and Burns the whole time, so the Falcons didn't think he'd play, but I don't see that being likely either.

Edited September 9, 2023 by tukafan21

[Smithers]

1 minute ago, therealmjl said:

 

Will isn’t even connected to the Charlotte market anymore.  He’s David Newton 2.0, just based outta Houston.  Again, Evans and Higgans are playing.  All Chris Jones did by sitting out was help his team start 0-1.