REPORT: Panthers and Brian Burns not at all close to extension

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, KSpan said:

Having 2 other high draft picks, assuming 1 is used on a rusher as you say, and an extra $30MM in cap prompts the question of where weapons for the offense are coming from? Seems obvious. The better question is where they are going to come from now if that cap room is gone and with no high draft picks.

Hell, even trading Burns to Chicago instead of DJ and maybe keeping one of those 1st and/or 2nd rounders would have made more sense then the timeline we're currently travelling. 

Its been explained to him over and over and over but he is just doesnt seem to understand the concept

[Martin]

47 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Some of you may be familiar with the book by Jim Collins entitled Good to Great. While his conclusions are not always consistent (Cherry picked), he makes a point that underlies his primary theme:

Good is the enemy of Great because most people are satisfied with being good.  There is less motivation to take that next step because you reached a status of being good at your job.

In the NFL, the line between good and great is blurry.  So much depends on your scheme, quality of teammates, random opportunity, etc.  The difference between 10 sacks and 15 sacks, if you think about it, is 5 plays over the course of about 450 passing opportunities for each player.   Some are awarded sacks when the defensive backs cover up the QBs options and the clock runs out, forcing him into the grasp of an otherwise stonewalled edge rusher.  Other times middle pressure forces the QB to hold the ball etc etc. 

The better gauge of an edge rusher's worth might be to see how his presence impacts the offense--do they keep a RB or TE in to chip him?  How many pressures does he get?  Etc.  I dunno.  So I understand why this is problematic.  Burns averages 9.5 sacks for his 4-year career.  However,over the last 3 seasons, he has averaged about 33 solo tackles and 21 QB hits.  He has averaged about 9.5 tackles for loss over the same period.  His DB play has been erratic at best--so how does that stack up vs. Bosa?  The biggest difference (he was injured his second year, so I am looking at his top 3 seasons) is in the area of QB hits--Bosa averaged about 33 hits per season, 12 more than Burns.  Bosa averaged 38 solo tackles per season, compared to Burns 33.  And in Bosa's top 3 seasons (rookie, 3 and 4) he averaged 14.33 sacks per season, vs. Burns' 9.5.

In my estimation, Burns is good, Bosa is great. We shall see how much difference their paychecks reflect

Bosa is great, no doubt about it. He’s also playing on a stacked line and defense. Don’t get me wrong, he’s still a superior player, but Burns stats would most likely look different on the 49ers defense. So just one more factor to include when comparing the two.

[CRA]

Just now, CamWhoaaCam said:

When Burns signs his new deal we can celebrate together.

 

We have a homegrown star DE. I think we should keep him. We traded enough star talent already. Now you got people on tv saying they can't name a player on our roster because we traded them all. You need stars on your roster.

Brians Burns is from Florida.  He played his college ball in Florida.  He isn't homegrown. He had little choice but to come to Carolina.  It's business.   

Never get attached to players.  They aren't attached to us. 

you need offensive stars on your roster in the modern day NFL.   You can win without defensive stars.  Easier with them.  But it's an offensive league.  A passing league.   And pass rushers are important but even really good defensive lineman will tell you.....when a great QB is on he can make the DL talent largely irrelevant. 

[CamWhoaaCam]

3 minutes ago, KSpan said:

Having 2 other high draft picks, assuming 1 is used on a rusher as you say, and an extra $30MM in cap prompts the question of where weapons for the offense are coming from? Seems obvious. The better question is where they are going to come from now if that cap room is gone and with no high draft picks.

Hell, even trading Burns to Chicago instead of DJ and maybe keeping one of those 1st and/or 2nd rounders would have made more sense then the timeline we're currently travelling. 

Who we signing with that cap?

 

The FA class for WR's was suspect. Also are those weapons trying to come to a rebuilding team and a rookie QB?

 

You have these assumptions, but it's not that easy. You have to have vet players on your roster to attract other good players. FA's are not looking to join rebuilding rosters with no identity.

 

Im more upset that we traded Moore over Burns. If we drafting a rookie QB it would have made more sense to keep the vet WR in his prime.

 

Im open to trading Burns but it has to be the right deal.

[CamWhoaaCam]

3 minutes ago, CRA said:

Brians Burns is from Florida.  He played his college ball in Florida.  He isn't homegrown. He had little choice but to come to Carolina.  It's business.   

Never get attached to players.  They aren't attached to us. 

you need offensive stars on your roster in the modern day NFL.   You can win without defensive stars.  Easier with them.  But it's an offensive league.  A passing league.   And pass rushers are important but even really good defensive lineman will tell you.....when a great QB is on he can make the DL talent largely irrelevant. 

Burns is still on the roster. I will be a fan until he is traded.

 

You can continue to talk about why we should trade him for picks. Im focused on Sunday and watching Burns get his first 3 sack game of his career.

 

Go Panthers!

[CRA]

2 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Im open to trading Burns but it has to be the right deal.

 Fitt already missed that deal.  When you find someone being dumb you take advantage of it. 

[CRA]

1 minute ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Burns is still on the roster. I will be a fan until he is traded.

 

You can continue to talk about why we should trade him for picks. Im focused on Sunday and watching Burns get his first 3 sack game of his career.

 

Go Panthers!

I'm a Burns fan. 

I'm not a fan of our GM doing dumb stuff.  Hopefully Fitt gets him signed to a reasonable deal.  And if he doesn't?  I won't have an issue with Burns.  I'll have an issue with the front office. 

[Martin]

15 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

My confidence in Fitts is gone. There have been 2 major blunders already this off-season.

1. Panicking and trading up for DJ Johnson. Regardless of if he works out or not, its the second panic pick in as many years.

2. The whole Burns disaster. Completely foreseeable and avoidable no matter which side of the trade you're on. 

I don't want any more. 

 

16 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

My confidence in Fitts is gone. There have been 2 major blunders already this off-season.

1. Panicking and trading up for DJ Johnson. Regardless of if he works out or not, its the second panic pick in as many years.

2. The whole Burns disaster. Completely foreseeable and avoidable no matter which side of the trade you're on. 

I don't want any more. 

Agree on the Burns thing. As you turned down the trade (I’m kind of ok with that) there should have been a plan in place to sign Burns long term. Being 2 days away from kickoff and it still being unresolved is unacceptable.

However, losing faith in your GM for a trade up in the third round is wild. 
 

 

[KSpan]

2 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Who we signing with that cap?

 

The FA class for WR's was suspect. Also are those weapons trying to come to a rebuilding team and a rookie QB?

 

You have these assumptions, but it's not that easy. You have to have vet players on your roster to attract other good players. FA's are not looking to join rebuilding rosters with no identity.

 

Im more upset that we traded Moore over Burns. If we drafting a rookie QB it would have made more sense to keep the vet WR in his prime.

 

Im open to trading Burns but it has to be the right deal.

It's not my job to figure all of this out, but it's obvious that having more draft picks and salary cap room with a quality young receiver for your rookie QB is better than not having any of those things. 

To your second point, DJ is one season older than Burns, so keeping him and letting Burns go would be a wash. Having Burns here is not going to attract anyone - that is overblown. Players have their motivations, but playing along with your thinking it would be pretty attractive to have a bounty of picks and cap.

And you say you're open, but there was a deal last year for 2 1sts and what ended up being basically a 1st. If that deal isn't/wasn't good enough for someone then they aren't actually open to trading in a realistic sense. 

[CamWhoaaCam]

Just now, CRA said:

 Fitt already missed that deal.  When you find someone being dumb you take advantage of it. 

I don't think the Rams deal was the right deal.

 

I think the deal with Chicago should have been Burns instead of Moore. That's the deal Fitt missed. Bryce has his #1 WR from day 1. Maybe instead of picking Mingo in the 2nd round we draft a pass rusher.

 

Offense seems more formidable with Moore/Sanders/Thielen as your skill players. Now that's how you make your young rookie QB more comfortable give him proven talent around him he can trust from day 1.

[CamWhoaaCam]

3 minutes ago, CRA said:

I'm a Burns fan. 

I'm not a fan of our GM doing dumb stuff.  Hopefully Fitt gets him signed to a reasonable deal.  And if he doesn't?  I won't have an issue with Burns.  I'll have an issue with the front office. 

Fitt is not in this along. Teppers signs off on these deals. Also Tepper went hard after Deshaun Watson. Lets not place all the blame on Fitt.

[Ornias]

1 minute ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

I don't think the Rams deal was the right deal.

 

I think the deal with Chicago should have been Burns instead of Moore. That's the deal Fitt missed. Bryce has his #1 WR from day 1. Maybe instead of picking Mingo in the 2nd round we draft a pass rusher.

 

Offense seems more formidable with Moore/Sanders/Thielen as your skill players. Now that's how you make your young rookie QB more comfortable give him proven talent around him he can trust from day 1.

It never made sense to draft a QB but trade your best receiver. 

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, CamWhoaaCam said:

I don't think the Rams deal was the right deal.

 

 

[CRA]

2 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Fitt is not in this along. Teppers signs off on these deals. Also Tepper went hard after Deshaun Watson. Lets not place all the blame on Fitt.

that's why the post you quoted said I would take issue with the front office.