Hey guys, it's 2011 not 2015.

[Navy_football]

17 hours ago, KSpan said:

Coaching is a push at best IMO, with less overall total years of experience in respective positions with this staff and Rivera and McD both being highly successful as coordinators (I give the nod to 2011). Carolina had a little more offensive talent in 2011 (Cam, Smith, Olsen, Shockey, Double Trouble, Gross/Wharton/Kalil), and this year's defense has more talent overall since both Beason and TD were out for the year.

Really pretty equivalent overall.

Stoic Ron was cancelled out by Chud and McDermott. Playcalling was legit that season. This season is an unknown, but with a lot of potential. 

Offensively... this team can't touch the talent. Cam walked into an offense that was only missing the leader. Defense gave up games that year. Can't expect a rookie QB to win shoot outs every week. 

[OUCPFL]

16 minutes ago, CRA said:

Ron allowed Cam to be special.  Not try to make a square peg fit the round hole that was the NFL QB spot. 

Cam hurt his shoulder making a tackle because KB is lazy.  Messed up his foot juking on NE's turf.  Cam wasn't run into the ground by Ron.   NE was proof of that.  Gas tank still full for the dirty work.  Still full today.  As Cam said, you got to let a lion roar.   Ron did and it was probably THE best window in our franchise's history because of it.    

Lol. Sure man. He got hit 2X more than any QB in the NFL during the mid 2010's. 

[CRA]

12 minutes ago, OUCPFL said:

Lol. Sure man. He got hit 2X more than any QB in the NFL during the mid 2010's. 

Cam Newton went to New England after being run into the ground.....and logged the 2nd most attempts in his career, had the 2nd most rushing TDs in his career, 2nd most first downs in his career and was a battering ram.  He wasn't run down.  Running remained the one thing he could do.  And he won more games than us, with a worse team, in less games that year. 

What killed Cam Newton's career was a shoulder injury he received making a tackle off an INT.  A fluke.  Best OL in the NFL doesn't prevent that.  Because a fat lazy WR gave up on the play the moment he didn't get the ball.  That fluke injury ended his career.   Because he couldn't throw after it. 

You could never measure Cam by traditional standards.  Not in college.  Not in the NFL.  He was uniquely built to run.   So the hit number doesn't hold the same weight as if we were talking about a traditional passer.   Or even a scrambler.  Cam was essentially an anomaly. 

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

I mean, Ron let Cam Newton play literally the only way he has ever played the game.  His 2 national titles.  His MVP Super Bowl run.  All the same formula.  And that approach took him to the top at every level.  

and the injuries that derailed his career were two fluke ones that weren't tied to OL play or wear and tear of hits. 

and I still maintain there aren't a lot of teams that would have gotten what Ron got out of Cam.   Imperfect as it was.  Cam went to one of the best places he could of possibly gone to.  And that's because of Ron.  Too many would have insisted on coaching him into being something not special and playing to his weakness to fit what they do. 

Things that work at those levels don't necessarily work at the pro level.

As it was, we got one great season and a bunch of decent to mediocre ones.

As soon as other teams figured out how to counter what we were doing in 2015, we had no answers.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[Jmac]

They better get the Oline figured out (what's new), or our rookie QB will be in deep shat. They don't have the running game to pound the ball, nor the brute running back to do it. 

Last season they had a bruising back and used a third string guard to lead block and it worked. Completely different setup this year.

 

 

[ladypanther]

Rivera's mistake (among a few) was counting on Cam to be the answer...always.  They did not get him an oline, develop him as a passer, and just counted on his running to bail them out.  When things went wrong...there was no other answer. Yes, there were some exciting times but still could not produce b2b winning seasons. I think we wasted Cam as a talent...as well as Luke.

 I like Ron as a person and have said many times...I wish he had a strong GM....especially from the start.  I do think it would have made a difference.

[CRA]

51 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Things that work at those levels don't necessarily work at the pro level.

As it was, we got one great season and a bunch of decent to mediocre ones.

As soon as other teams figured out how to counter what we were doing in 2015, we had no answers.

Cam provided a lot more than one great season.   He gave you one all time great season.  Bunch of “mediocre” Pro Bowl seasons you had stomach through. 

Figured him out in year 6?  The injury that wrecked his throwing was in 2016.   Which Cam acknowledged never healed.   I mean teams figured out in the opener the league would allow hack a Shaq and that Cam was officially an anomaly in terms of calls.  I’ll give you that. 

 

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, CRA said:

Cam provided a lot more than one great season.   He gave you one all time great season.  

Figured him out in year 6?  The injury that wrecked his throwing was in 2016.   Which Cam acknowledged never healed.   I mean teams figured out in the opener the league would allow hack a Shaq and that Cam was officially an anomaly in terms of calls.  I’ll give you that. 

Figured out how we were using him, yeah.

Turner tried transitioning him to something different, and it probably could have worked but by that time it was too late.

[CRA]

29 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Figured out how we were using him, yeah.

Turner tried transitioning him to something different, and it probably could have worked but by that time it was too late.

That’s a tough sell boss.   That it took the NFL 6 years to figure out what Cam did…..and it is was that and not his shoulder injury that did his career in.  

And if your fixation is 2016 off the Super Bowl rewrite the rules to murder Cam season that he hurt his shoulder in, the Panther D went drastically backward.  Went from top 10 to bottom 10.   And when your model is Cam and D.  You need the D for the formula to work.  Didn’t help Luke and Cam only shared the field 9 times that year. 

[Matthias]

Our defense is way better on paper than the 2011 team.  If our offense can put up 2011's team offensive numbers or better, that is a playoff team.

[Mr. Scot]

13 minutes ago, CRA said:

That’s a tough sell boss.   That it took the NFL 6 years to figure out what Cam did…..and it is was that and not his shoulder injury that did his career in.  

And if your fixation is 2016 off the Super Bowl rewrite the rules to murder Cam season that he hurt his shoulder in, the Panther D went drastically backward.  Went from top 10 to bottom 10.   And when your model is Cam and D.  You need the D for the formula to work.  Didn’t help Luke and Cam only shared the field 9 times that year. 

Technically it was what Mike Shula was doing, and it really only took one game.

Hell, even 2015 wasn't as good as people reminisce it was. The formula that year was basically to build a lead in the first half then pray like hell we didn't lose it by game's end because our coaching staff had no idea how to make adjustments. By the following season, we couldn't even do that.

That didn't change till Nov arrived, but again...too late.

[CRA]

20 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Technically it was what Mike Shula was doing, and it really only took one game.

Not following you.  Mike Shula became OC in 2013.   They figured it out after the first Shula game?  Cam went on to the Pro Bowl in 2013.   Was an All Pro 2 years later and was close to pulling off a perfect season.    That’s an odd definition of figured out after one game. 

Or you talking just 2016 and Denver being allowed to head hunt Cam in the pocket? Which sent a message to the league about how they would officiate Cam uniquely?  That’s figuring things out?   And if I recall Cam still got them in position for the game winner.  Kicker just missed the 2nd one after they called a time out after hitting the first.   

Panthers D going south had more to do with things going south than the league suddenly figuring Cam Newton out in 2016.  Again, they largely figured they could try to take him out.  And again, his career essentially ended that season with the shoulder injury.  
 

[Mr. Scot]

33 minutes ago, CRA said:

Not following you.  Mike Shula became OC in 2013.   They figured it out after the first Shula game?  Cam went on to the Pro Bowl in 2013.   Was an All Pro 2 years later and was close to pulling off a perfect season.    That’s an odd definition of figured out after one game. 

Or you talking just 2016 and Denver being allowed to head hunt Cam in the pocket? Which sent a message to the league about how they would officiate Cam uniquely?  That’s figuring things out?   And if I recall Cam still got them in position for the game winner.  Kicker just missed the 2nd one after they called a time out after hitting the first.   

Panthers D going south had more to do with things going south than the league suddenly figuring Cam Newton out in 2016.  Again, they largely figured they could try to take him out.  And again, his career essentially ended that season with the shoulder injury.  
 

I've been talking about the offense overall under Rivera. The 2015 edition was the best of that, but it didn't last beyond that season.

The "one game" where it got figured out was technically two since Atlanta did it first, but the Super Bowl arguably had more impact.

[CRA]

33 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

 

The "one game" where it got figured out was technically two since Atlanta did it first, but the Super Bowl arguably had more impact.

Well, we probably would have had more losses than 1 that year if the D let the opposing #1 WRs go for nearly 200 yards. 

Refs had more to do with that Super Bowl L than Denver figuring out Cam.  Even Von Miller said they got lucky and Carolina was just flat out the better team.  He would have loved to of claimed they just had a great gameplan and formula to stop Cam….and not credit it to getting lucky.  Most would have even if they got lucky. 

It was an old school model. Instead of run and play D it was Cam and play D.  If you ain’t got one….it’s going to be a tough day.   Flawed? Yes.   Just like the run and play D approach was.