Hey guys, it's 2011 not 2015.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, joemac said:

That Cam led, Chudzinski offense was so much fun to watch.

Definitely fun, though over time Chudzinsky kind of outsmarted himself. Speculation has suggested it became more about his head coaching aspirations than actually doing his job.

His post Panthers career path was damn near bizarre. I feel like there's a lot of untold stories there that we'd love to hear but probably never will.

[joemac]

15 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Definitely fun, though over time Chudzinsky kind of outsmarted himself. Speculation has suggested it became more about his head coaching aspirations than actually doing his job.

His post Panthers career path was damn near bizarre. I feel like there's a lot of untold stories there that we'd love to hear but probably never will.

What is he even doing these days?  Somewhere in college?

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, joemac said:

What is he even doing these days?  Somewhere in college?

Some kind of college assistant / consultant. I remember looking it up when we were staffing.

I remember someone else saying that he reportedly doesn't want to call plays anymore.

Edit: Looked it up out of curiosity. He's at Boston College where his current title is Associate Head Coach.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[CRA]

42 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

So yes, but no, but yes, but...yeah

Ron's "history" isn't something I would want to hang my hat on, especially when it comes to hiring the right people.

That's why my answer is a firm, and unequivocal, "no".

Ron’s history is Cam’s career/success in terms of investing a team around an #1 overall pick.  And that experiment went better than most do.  

Sorry, I don’t answer in the absolutes demanded.  If you want a defensive HC….Ron would be a good one.  Should you want one?  Valid question.  Same with investing in a player like Cam. 

which again, it’s easier to do worse than Ron than better.  NFL history is the proof.  Same was true with Fox. We actually got lucky stacking two back to back.  I got no problem with you wanting better and more.  But the math is the math in terms of how easy that is to do better. 

I’ve long said I wanted an offensive HC given the league is what it is. And Cam type QB isn’t the textbook path to find success.  Especially consistent success. 

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, CRA said:

Ron’s history is Cam’s career/success in terms of investing a team around an #1 overall pick.  And that experiment went better than most do.  

Sorry, I don’t answer in the absolutes demanded.  If you want a defensive HC….Ron would be a good one.  Should you want one?  Valid question.  Same with investing in a player like Cam. 

which again, it’s easier to do worse than Ron than better.  NFL history is the proof.  Same was true with Fox. We actually got lucky stacking two back to back.  I got no problem with you wanting better and more.  But the math is the math in terms of how easy that is to do better. 

Fox certainly didn't improve his image after leaving, especially with his last job.

He does have the distinction of being the only coach I know who managed to leave two different teams for new jobs without actually getting fired (contract expiration). 

Rivera still has a chance to prove he's better than how it turned out here, but he may not have very long to do so.

Edited August 17, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[joemac]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Fox certainly didn't improve his image after leaving, especially with his last job.

He does have the distinction of being the only coach I know who managed to leave two different teams for new jobs without actually getting fired (contract expiration). 

Rivera still has a chance to prove he's better than how it turned out here, but he may not have very long to do so.

Fox was awful with the Bears, but his QBs were Mike Glennon and Mitch Trubiski lol.  Fox was the type of coach who could not win without solid QB play.  

[CRA]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Fox certainly didn't improve his image after leaving, especially with his last job.

He does have the distinction of being the only coach I know who managed to leave two different teams for new jobs without actually getting fired (contract expiration). 

Rivera still has a chance to prove he's better than how it turned out here, but he may not have very long to do so.

Well, Fox really spreads across 2 eras of modern NFL football.  Goes to why I said my preference in today’s NFL is an Offensive HC.  The league today and the league in 2002 are different games.  Fox was good coach here.  Not great.  Again, a lot of this word usage and people using their own definitions/meanings. 

Frank is the step in the right direction.  League is offense. The league itself doesn’t want what Fox wanted on the field.  Rivera is mixed in that too.  

 

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, joemac said:

Fox was awful with the Bears, but his QBs were Mike Glennon and Mitch Trubiski lol.  Fox was the type of coach who could not win without solid QB play.  

He got the kind of guys he wanted though. 

I remember it being mentioned (probably by either Darin Gantt or Joe Person) that Fox didn't believe in franchise quarterbacks. He was one of those guys who always wanted the offense to do "just enough" while the defense carried the team.

Seriously doubt you ever could have sold him on a Cam Newton type. Worked with Rivera though, probably because one of his mentors used Randall Cunningham the same way.

[Gerry Green]

I was under the impression that pissing matches were verboten. I guess it only matters if certain people are the ones enjoying themselves. 

 

And for the record, Cam's shoulder was ruined by Watt. 

Rivera is not a very good coach. 

Turner was the only coach to get anything close to an NFL QB out of Cam.

And I would not want Rivera anywhere near Bryce.

The Refs are not out to get us.

And too many folks still living in the past. 

 

[joemac]

10 minutes ago, Gerry Green said:

I was under the impression that pissing matches were verboten. I guess it only matters if certain people are the ones enjoying themselves. 

 

And for the record, Cam's shoulder was ruined by Watt. 

Rivera is not a very good coach. 

Turner was the only coach to get anything close to an NFL QB out of Cam.

And I would not want Rivera anywhere near Bryce.

The Refs are not out to get us.

And too many folks still living in the past. 

 

Cams shoulder was ruined chasing a DB down 80 yards after an interception, when KB just stood there like the fat poo he is.  Watt was just the final nail in the coffin.

[Gerry Green]

Just now, joemac said:

Cams shoulder was ruined chasing a DB down 80 yards after an interception, when KB just stood there like the fat poo he is.  Watt was just the final nail in the coffin.

 

I think it all boils down to how well you think Cam threw the ball after the KB fiasco. I don't think he missed much time, nor did he lose any velocity until after the Watt hit. The first injury wasn't the career ender the second one was.

[frankw]

18 minutes ago, Gerry Green said:

 

I think it all boils down to how well you think Cam threw the ball after the KB fiasco. I don't think he missed much time, nor did he lose any velocity until after the Watt hit. The first injury wasn't the career ender the second one was.

Newton was having a career season before the Watt hit. He also nearly led the Panthers to a playoff win in New Orleans the year before with a bunch of randos at wide receiver. The results since that helmet to the shoulder from Watt are plain to see. It can happen to any QB. Enjoy the good times while they are still going.

[Gerry Green]

2 minutes ago, frankw said:

Newton was having a career season before the Watt hit. He also nearly led the Panthers to a playoff win in New Orleans the year before with a bunch of randos at wide receiver. The results since that helmet to the shoulder from Watt are plain to see. It can happen to any QB. Enjoy the good times while they are still going.

 

I think, now this is just my opinion. But, way too many people are stuck in the past. And that fear won't allow them to let the excitement in. In the back of their mind there will always be that voice telling them the sky is about to fall.

 

Fingers crossed this season will usher in a new era in fan joviality. 

[Sgt Schultz]

In the present, Rivera is one of the guys you call when you hired a complete buffoon and he left your team a smoldering mess.  In the case of Washington, the owner was busy making the team a smoldering mess.

The examples are following The Process, McDaniels in Denver (John Fox), Meyer in Jacksonville (especially if he had been around another year).  Fox and Wilks are cut from the same cloth as Rivera.  They are guys that stabilize things, create cohesion within the team, emphasize basics, and slow things down (in a sense).  They are not going to steal wins with their game planning or adjustments.  But, they will stabilize things somewhere around mediocrity, with some years being better depending on talent.  In general, while they are not going to create the best situation for the talent to excel, but they are also not likely to make it impossible for the talent to succeed.

There will always be a market for stabilizers because there will always be owners and GMs hiring buffoons that screw things up to the core.

Rivera is good at what he does, but that has limitations.