Hey guys, it's 2011 not 2015.

[Wundrbread33]

It’s tough taking anybody seriously, especially “fans”, who say Cam had one great year, and a bunch of mediocre ones. 
 

It’s either a short memory, or they were somehow jaded so much that they missed the force he was on the field. 
 

Combine his passing AND rushing statistics, and show me where all this mediocrity was. 

[Mr. Scot]

41 minutes ago, CRA said:

Well, we probably would have had more losses than 1 that year if the D let the opposing #1 WRs go for nearly 200 yards. 

Refs had more to do with that Super Bowl L than Denver figuring out Cam.  Even Von Miller said they got lucky and Carolina was just flat out the better team.  He would have loved to of claimed they just had a great gameplan and formula to stop Cam….and not credit it to getting lucky.  Most would have even if they got lucky. 

It was an old school model. Instead of run and play D it was Cam and play D.  If you ain’t got one….it’s going to be a tough day.   Flawed? Yes.   Just like the run and play D approach was. 

Disagree with Miller's characterization here, but getting back to the heart of things, the question was which coaching staff is better.

We've had plenty of discussion regarding Newton, but I haven't seen anything about how Rivera would develop Young.

Is that really something you'd want him entrusted with?

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, Wundrbread33 said:

It’s tough taking anybody seriously, especially “fans”, who say Cam had one great year, and a bunch of mediocre ones. 

It’s either a short memory, or they were somehow jaded so much that they missed the force he was on the field. 

Combine his passing AND rushing statistics, and show me where all this mediocrity was. 

Do you measure a great season by stats or wins?

Newton certainly had great statistical seasons, but in the context of coaching discussion, team wins are what matter.

[CRA]

21 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Disagree with Miller's characterization here, but getting back to the heart of things, the question was which coaching staff is better.

We've had plenty of discussion regarding Newton, but I haven't seen anything about how Rivera would develop Young.

Is that really something you'd want him entrusted with?

Von Miller said if they played the game 10 times that Denver might get 2.   Best team doesn’t always win.  Getting lucky can matter.  Or unlucky. 

Which staff was better? That year?  The one that was 18-1 entering the game.  

Ron would hire someone to develop Young.  He is a defensive guy and that would be that.    And Ron likely finds an OC that would cater to Young’s strengths.  And that’s that. 

Cam rewrote the record books as a rookie if I recall.  But that’s largely because we played to his strengths and it was new and unique.   I was always fine with the Ron Cam approach because he was an anomaly.   He wasn’t going to be like anyone else and didn’t want a coach that attempted it.  Said it before he was drafted.  I wanted to draft Cam but it was conditional on a coach actually letting him be the freak and not trying to make him a normal QB.  And I never thought he would have a long career.  It just went different in being the shorter one than I thought.  I thought his legs would go and be why we moved on.  

[CRA]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Do you measure a great season by stats or wins?

Newton certainly had great statistical seasons, but in the context of coaching discussion, team wins are what matter.

It’s the QB carve out.  Because we account for great seasons all the time on play.  

Take the Denver game of 2016 we were talking about.  Cam got utterly abused.  Head hunted.  One of the grossest games I have seen.  And in the end he got them right into position to win the game.   Kick either gets made or misses.  Cam was Cam.   But the kick result determines the narrative.    Which fairly and unfairly too often blurs QB discussions.  I mean Manning won a Super Bowl in Denver.  Reality is no one should actually give that weight in his all time ranking.  He was benched for sucking that year.  He sucked when he got back.  Was a liability for them in the game. 

[KSpan]

31 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Do you measure a great season by stats or wins?

Newton certainly had great statistical seasons, but in the context of coaching discussion, team wins are what matter.

Even if he never fully developed as a passer (relatively speaking for him, as he was better than many give him credit for) Cam dragged and willed those teams to wins every year. How many wins the total team had at the end of the year depended on the talent and coaching around him, and Cam did lose some games on his own, but in baseball terms his WAR on those teams was very high.

That said, there is a chicken/egg thing with Rivera and how Cam was used. I do believe though that he maximized his unique running ability, to overreliance at times.

[WhoKnows]

6 hours ago, CRA said:

Cam Newton went to New England after being run into the ground.....and logged the 2nd most attempts in his career, had the 2nd most rushing TDs in his career, 2nd most first downs in his career and was a battering ram.  He wasn't run down.  Running remained the one thing he could do.  And he won more games than us, with a worse team, in less games that year. 

What killed Cam Newton's career was a shoulder injury he received making a tackle off an INT.  A fluke.  Best OL in the NFL doesn't prevent that.  Because a fat lazy WR gave up on the play the moment he didn't get the ball.  That fluke injury ended his career.   Because he couldn't throw after it. 

You could never measure Cam by traditional standards.  Not in college.  Not in the NFL.  He was uniquely built to run.   So the hit number doesn't hold the same weight as if we were talking about a traditional passer.   Or even a scrambler.  Cam was essentially an anomaly. 

I don’t get why KB is blamed for that play when the only blame in the SB was the refs. KB touched the DB and the DB was down as the replay showed. If you watch the play, it was obvious that the DB was down. It was obvious live and there was a ref right there near the end zone with a great view of the play. The play should have been blown dead and the ref let it play out. Interception returns are where QBs and other offensive players can get hurt, like TD getting suspended for his hit on Adams.

KB didn’t get Cam hurt. The ref that didn’t blow the whistle on a dangerous play when it was completely obvious that the DB was down caused Cam to get hurt. The review took no time at all and the return was overturned. Same way that our OL missed blocks but they didn’t cause the launches into Cam’s head, the refs that ignored the obvious penalties caused those hits.

[Eric4280]

No, it’s 2023. This kind of thinking sucks. Once again, we were a JC Horn freak injury from the playoffs LAST season.

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

I still consider sending the NFC champions on the road to open against the team they just lost to in a controversial, poorly officiated Super Bowl as a power play by the NFL to send a "fug you, this is our league and you need to know your place" message to the Panthers.

[PghPanther]

Based on what most of you say about this football team........I get the feeling that when many of you go house shopping the last place of the house you inspect is the basement/crawl space where the foundation is set and must be intact or major problems will show up over time. 

For the last 8 years of so I've been on this thread complaining about the basement/crawl space of this organization ..............the Oline.............the foundation.

and here we are going into 2023.

And what is still the big problem?

Our foundation has too many cracks in it.........and its going to show up in the play again and again.

When will this 2nd rate organization learn you build a football team by controlling the line of scrimmage on the offense to move chains....eat up time with the offense on the field while keeping your defense fresh .......and their defense exhausted over time .......and at the same time keeping their offense off the field.

This isn't rocket science..........................but this organization just can't stand being in the basement working on it when they can be up in all those wonderful showy rooms watching big screens while the walls crack and the foundation starts to sink. 

 

  

Edited August 16, 2023 by PghPanther

[PghPanther]

4 minutes ago, PghPanther said:

 

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by PghPanther

[frankw]

Mr. Scot is still concern trolling about Cam Newton not winning enough I see.

This years Panthers better show up this weekend so we have something else to talk about.

[CRA]

37 minutes ago, frankw said:

Mr. Scot is still concern trolling about Cam Newton not winning enough I see.

This years Panthers better show up this weekend so we have something else to talk about.

I think it's Ron bashing bleeding over. 

and Ron's our best coach to date that saw the most success in franchise history.  And took the franchise to highest it's ever been in terms of league relevancy.  Perfect? No.  But in world of where to hold Panther grudges...Ron isn't where I would fixate. 

 

[Mr. Scot]

11 hours ago, CRA said:

Ron would hire someone to develop Young.

Yeah...at this point you're just bullsh-tting.