Hey guys, it's 2011 not 2015.

[Doyle]

If we go 9-7 I will be very excited about our future.  

[KSpan]

24 minutes ago, OUCPFL said:

I hate to say it, but that sounds like the current team if you're getting technical. But the defense is returning the majority of their starters and no big injuries yet (sans the RG position). But Clausen/Moore was probably worse than Mayfield/Darnold from last year. 

That's the point though - 2011 was nowhere near a rebuild. It was strikingly similar to this year, an entirely new staff, new schemes, and a new QB, with similar talent overall... hell, the 2013 offense had 9 of the same starters as 2011 and the defense had 4 (5 if Godfrey hadn't gotten hurt). It's the entire premise of the original post that the real improvements may take a year or two to appear just like in 2011.

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, KSpan said:

? I'm not saying it's definitive, as I consider it a general push overall, but I'd take the 2011 staff overall. Just a personal feeling as Reich has not bene impressive as an HC IMO.

Looking at pts scored, 3 of Reich's 4 years as OC his offenses were middle of the pack or worse, with 2017 Philly being top-tier. Evero did fine with what was in Denver but they were #3 in pts scored the year before so obviously something there.

Rivera had a #13, #1, and #3 defense in Chicago and #2, #4, and #2 defense in San Diego. McD had #19 and #21 defense in Philly. Chud had a #8 and #30 offense in Cleveland.

The overall years are closer than I recall but doesn't change my thought.

Can't agree with that.

Bryce Young's development being in the hands of Ron Rivera would give me nightmares.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[KSpan]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Can't agree with that.

Bryce Young's development being in the hands of Ron Rivera would give me nightmares.

I'm just talking in the imminent season, but that is a fair point. Reich may be an average coach overal but if he and his staff help Young develop into a star then that's a huge long-term plus. 

[Billy Love]

On 8/13/2023 at 11:41 AM, DeeJay said:

Jimmy clausen saved this franchise

We got cam 

Then Rivera destroyed Cam by not providing OL help. 

[backINblack28]

I'm gonna always be optimistic until given reason not to. I'm not taking stock in our first preseason against the TV tryharding Jets in their second (they looked sloppy in their first too). Someone posted that Bills preseason shutout we had two months before Rhule was fired--enough said. Preseason is irrelevant.  

People saying that the expectation shouldn't be playoffs--I get not wanting to expect too much or too much pressure on a rookie QB, but the way I look at it is we were two officiating blunders/starting with Rhule away from making playoffs, and the whole year, we had below league average QB play (in a decent amount of games I'd say that's an understatement). 

While the saints may have gotten better, at best, they took the place of Tampa who is now aging/begging to draft a QB first or second overall. The falcons have the exact same questions as us at QB, but in my opinion a worse overall roster and there's a difference between what we can expect for Bryce and what they can expect from Ridder. He impressed me none last year and went 2-2 playing Kyle Trask/McSorley etc.

I know we had quite a bit of roster turnover. I just feel like since we missed the playoffs by such a slim margin, that given we get coaching above Matt Rhule and QB play above Sam/Baker/PJ, we can easily make the playoffs. IMO you can say whatever you want about rookie QB expectations, but two very important caveats here are 1. Bryce is entering a better situation than maybe ANY first overall draft QB ever and 2. If there's anyone out there who thinks he cannot INSTANTLY do better than what we saw at the QB position last year, I have serious questions about 1. if you've seen him play a football game or 2. your ability to comprehend what happens in said football games

[CRA]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Can't agree with that.

Bryce Young's development being in the hands of Ron Rivera would give me nightmares.

Frank's never developed anyone either though. 

Ron played to his player's strengths.  Cam shows that.  Which is the way it should be.  People rage about Ron letting Cam be Cam.  But that is how it should of been IMO. 

[DeeJay]

1 hour ago, Billy Love said:

Then Rivera destroyed Cam by not providing OL help. 

You are 100 percent correct

[OceanRider]

This forum is a sad sad place to be. Sometimes it feels like it’s filled with over emotional kids. We lost a preseason game. Big whoops. I enjoyed the game, it was nice to watch some football again after a long hot summer. I opened CH in the middle of the game and immediately closed it, I didn’t want to ruin my game day experience by reading so much negativity. How some of you function in the real world is a great mystery to me. 

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

Frank's never developed anyone either though. 

Ron played to his player's strengths.  Cam shows that.  Which is the way it should be.  People rage about Ron letting Cam be Cam.  But that is how it should of been IMO. 

If all Rivera had done was play to Newton's strengths, I'd approve of that.

What Rivera actually did was take the Buddy Ryan approach and basically expected Newton to be the offense while he concentrated on the defense. This combined with insufficient protection helped shorten Newton's career.

[OUCPFL]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

Frank's never developed anyone either though. 

Ron played to his player's strengths.  Cam shows that.  Which is the way it should be.  People rage about Ron letting Cam be Cam.  But that is how it should of been IMO. 

IMO is perfect. Because if Cam had an actual QB coach to fix his issues instead of running him into the ground, he would've been a much better passer. Instead Ron only gave a shitt about his job and thus, Cam was run into the ground. Sometimes you have to save QB's from themselves. 

[ForJimmy]

1 hour ago, CRA said:

Frank's never developed anyone either though. 

Ron played to his player's strengths.  Cam shows that.  Which is the way it should be.  People rage about Ron letting Cam be Cam.  But that is how it should of been IMO. 

Frank worked with Wentz went he was in the conversation for MVP before he got injured.  He also had Foles playing great when they won the Super Bowl.  

Ron leaned on Cam to bail him out of bad play calling and bad situations.  I saw a lot of run, run, long developing pass plays where Cam can try to buy some time with his legs.  Put Cam in a system Daboll created for Allen or Steichen has created for Hurts and he would have had a more consistent, longer career IMO.  

[CRA]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

If all Rivera had done was play to Newton's strengths, I'd approve of that.

What Rivera actually did was take the Buddy Ryan approach and basically expected Newton to be the offense while he concentrated on the defense. This combined with insufficient protection helped shorten Newton's career.

I mean, Ron let Cam Newton play literally the only way he has ever played the game.  His 2 national titles.  His MVP Super Bowl run.  All the same formula.  And that approach took him to the top at every level.  

and the injuries that derailed his career were two fluke ones that weren't tied to OL play or wear and tear of hits. 

and I still maintain there aren't a lot of teams that would have gotten what Ron got out of Cam.   Imperfect as it was.  Cam went to one of the best places he could of possibly gone to.  And that's because of Ron.  Too many would have insisted on coaching him into being something not special and playing to his weakness to fit what they do. 

[CRA]

7 minutes ago, OUCPFL said:

IMO is perfect. Because if Cam had an actual QB coach to fix his issues instead of running him into the ground, he would've been a much better passer. Instead Ron only gave a shitt about his job and thus, Cam was run into the ground. Sometimes you have to save QB's from themselves. 

Ron allowed Cam to be special.  Not try to make a square peg fit the round hole that was the NFL QB spot. 

Cam hurt his shoulder making a tackle because KB is lazy.  Messed up his foot juking on NE's turf.  Cam wasn't run into the ground by Ron.   NE was proof of that.  Gas tank still full for the dirty work.  Still full today.  As Cam said, you got to let a lion roar.   Ron did and it was probably THE best window in our franchise's history because of it.