Hey guys, it's 2011 not 2015.

[jfra78]

1 minute ago, OUCPFL said:

It's not a complete rebuild when your defense was intact, the whole O-Line was intact. 

This team won 7 games with a make shift coaching staff, the worst passing offense in the NFL............but because we have a better coaching staff, a better QB, we're supposed to be the same or worse? Enlighten me how that makes any sense? 

You can't put wins in a vacuum.  We beat up on some really shitty run Ds, when the teams we played could stop the run we lost.  We have no idea how good the teams we are playing are going to be this year. We can win 6 or 7 games this season and still be a better team than last year

[KatsAzz]

On 8/13/2023 at 11:34 AM, Zod said:

This will be a losing season, just like 2011 was.

The fun in it is that we get to watch a young team grow into what we hope will be a playoff team. 

By year 3 I suspect we will be there.

Come on man, let got of all  those negative vibes and start thinking positive.

[OUCPFL]

4 minutes ago, jfra78 said:

You can't put wins in a vacuum.  We beat up on some really shitty run Ds, when the teams we played could stop the run we lost.  We have no idea how good the teams we are playing are going to be this year. We can win 6 or 7 games this season and still be a better team than last year

We're literally facing a lot of the teams we faced last year. The majority didn't get better on their run defense issues. Bucs-they're worse on defense and offense. Saints-Got worse on defense. Falcons-Worse on offense? Better? Defense the same? Worse? Broncos-Worse defense? Better offense? Seahawks? The same probably. Nothing special about their moves. Still Geno at QB. Lions? Defense didn't get much better. Vikings defense was awful last year. Did they get better? Texans? Titans? Packers defense? 

I mean, if this team is the same as last year with just an above average passing offense we win more than 7 games. Matt Rhule sure did do a number on you guys. 

[CRA]

13 minutes ago, OUCPFL said:

It's not a complete rebuild when your defense was intact, the whole O-Line was intact. 

This team won 7 games with a make shift coaching staff, the worst passing offense in the NFL............but because we have a better coaching staff, a better QB, we're supposed to be the same or worse? Enlighten me how that makes any sense? 

it's a rebuild when you trade away your stud playmakers to acquire draft picks, hire a new HC and staff, plan to start a rookie QB, and have brand new D and O schemes that the entire team whether new or old has to learn.   That's a rebuild. 

this team won 7 games as by product of a weak schedule.  Not because they were playing good football or were good.  It would have been a 1 win team with a tough schedule.    The fixation on a bad team stumbling to 7 wins and somehow that carrying weight on how many we win this season just doesn't jive.   

[CRA]

8 minutes ago, OUCPFL said:

We're literally facing a lot of the teams we faced last year. The majority didn't get better on their run defense issues. Bucs-they're worse on defense and offense. Saints-Got worse on defense. Falcons-Worse on offense? Better? Defense the same? Worse? Broncos-Worse defense? Better offense? Seahawks? The same probably. Nothing special about their moves. Still Geno at QB. Lions? Defense didn't get much better. Vikings defense was awful last year. Did they get better? Texans? Titans? Packers defense? 

I mean, if this team is the same as last year with just an above average passing offense we win more than 7 games. Matt Rhule sure did do a number on you guys. 

I mean, NFL history says your take is wrong.   Our history too.  Teams change a lot.  It's why a team like the 2015 squad will not be on the radar at this time .  At all.  Or other teams you think will be strong....flop.   Each season is it's own beast. 

You mention Denver.  No one thought they would suck as bad they did last year.  And it's probably a safe bet they will be nowhere near as awful this year as you are penciling them in as simply because last year existed. 

[OUCPFL]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

it's a rebuild when you trade away your stud playmakers to acquire draft picks, hire a new HC and staff, plan to start a rookie QB, and have brand new D and O schemes that the entire team whether new or old has to learn.   That's a rebuild. 

this team won 7 games as by product of a weak schedule.  Not because they were playing good football or were good.  It would have been a 1 win team with a tough schedule.    The fixation on a bad team stumbling to 7 wins and somehow that carrying weight on how many we win this season just doesn't jive.   

You're treating McCaffrey like we didn't just add Miles Sanders there. 

Na. 2011 was a complete rebuild, the 2010 team was a disaster. This isn't a complete rebuild when there's talent all over the roster. The O-Line is again intact and a top 12 O-Line from last year. The defense will have some growing pains, sure. But thinking they are just going to be hot garbage with this coaching staff is interesting. 

Do you see a ton of weaknesses on the roster? I don't. When there are a ton of weaknesses, that's a complete rebuild. That soft schedule from last year is soft this year too because the NFC South as wild as this sounds still exists. 

The staff that's in place thinks they'll win and compete. While you have some odd balls on here, ignoring last year and the moves we made this offseason and they think "this is a complete rebuild." 

If KC fired Andy Reid and their whole staff, but kept Mahomes at QB, but traded away Kelce for picks would that be a complete rebuild? No. No it wouldn't. You insert a solid QB in this situation with your standards, and it isn't a complete rebuild. See how your thought process has some fallacies in it? 

[OUCPFL]

4 minutes ago, CRA said:

I mean, NFL history says your take is wrong.   Our history too.  Teams change a lot.  It's why a team like the 2015 squad will not be on the radar at this time .  At all.  Or other teams you think will be strong....flop.   Each season is it's own beast. 

You mention Denver.  No one thought they would suck as bad they did last year.  And it's probably a safe bet they will be nowhere near as awful this year as you are penciling them in as simply because last year existed. 

Or their offense could take a minor step up, and their defense which was good could take a step back.............That could be a recipe for them to be just as awful. 

[OUCPFL]

@CRAWe're just going to have to agree to disagree on this. Pleasure talking with you, though. 

[CRA]

45 minutes ago, OUCPFL said:

Or their offense could take a minor step up, and their defense which was good could take a step back.............That could be a recipe for them to be just as awful. 

Denver was last in points per game last year. I would make a wager they will improve dramatically from that. 

Sean Payton might be a douche but Denver will be in a drastically different place form a coaching standpoint.  We talking close to the shifts of moving on from a Rhule or Urban.    I mean it was comedy from the start. 

 

[KSpan]

1 hour ago, OUCPFL said:

You're treating McCaffrey like we didn't just add Miles Sanders there. 

Na. 2011 was a complete rebuild, the 2010 team was a disaster. This isn't a complete rebuild when there's talent all over the roster. The O-Line is again intact and a top 12 O-Line from last year. The defense will have some growing pains, sure. But thinking they are just going to be hot garbage with this coaching staff is interesting. 

Do you see a ton of weaknesses on the roster? I don't. When there are a ton of weaknesses, that's a complete rebuild. That soft schedule from last year is soft this year too because the NFC South as wild as this sounds still exists. 

The staff that's in place thinks they'll win and compete. While you have some odd balls on here, ignoring last year and the moves we made this offseason and they think "this is a complete rebuild." 

If KC fired Andy Reid and their whole staff, but kept Mahomes at QB, but traded away Kelce for picks would that be a complete rebuild? No. No it wouldn't. You insert a solid QB in this situation with your standards, and it isn't a complete rebuild. See how your thought process has some fallacies in it? 

You realize that the 2011 team returned 14 starters from that 'disaster' 2010 team and that a couple more that started for the first time in 2011 were on that 2010 roster, right? I addressed that exact topic in another post and, taken across the board, this team and the 2011 team are pretty equal in terms of total talent (2011 more stars on offense, this team has peaks in Burns and maybe Horn but 2011 was without both Beason and TD) and the 2011 staff had way more overall coaching experience. 

2010 was a product of abysmal QB play and lame duck coaching way worse than last year. The rest of that roster was solid, especially the defense.

Edited August 15, 2023 by KSpan

[Mr. Scot]

12 hours ago, KSpan said:

Coaching is a push at best IMO, with less overall total years of experience in respective positions with this staff and Rivera and McD both being highly successful as coordinators (I give the nod to 2011). 

[KSpan]

24 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

? I'm not saying it's definitive, as I consider it a general push overall, but I'd take the 2011 staff overall. Just a personal feeling as Reich has not bene impressive as an HC IMO.

Looking at pts scored, 3 of Reich's 4 years as OC his offenses were middle of the pack or worse, with 2017 Philly being top-tier. Evero did fine with what was in Denver but they were #3 in pts scored the year before so obviously something there.

Rivera had a #13, #1, and #3 defense in Chicago and #2, #4, and #2 defense in San Diego. McD had #19 and #21 defense in Philly. Chud had a #8 and #30 offense in Cleveland.

The overall years are closer than I recall but doesn't change my thought.

[TheWiz]

On 8/13/2023 at 11:40 AM, NAS said:

Disagree.  2011 came after 1-15 season. 
 

We didn’t earn the #1 pick this year, we traded up from #9 to get Bryce Young after finishing 7-10 and second in NFC South. 
 

My expectations are more 2013. Playoff appearance. 

Coaching and continuity matters. Not only did we trade up for Bryce Young but we've had a coaching overhaul. This coaching staff is still figuring out our personnel and what their coaching identity is. On top of that, everyone on the offense is new except for the O-line. It takes time to build chemistry on the field with players and off the field with coaches. I dont expect us to be bottom of the barrel, but I think we need to be more realistic. 

[OUCPFL]

1 hour ago, KSpan said:

You realize that the 2011 team returned 14 starters from that 'disaster' 2010 team and that a couple more that started for the first time in 2011 were on that 2010 roster, right? I addressed that exact topic in another post and, taken across the board, this team and the 2011 team are pretty equal in terms of total talent (2011 more stars on offense, this team has peaks in Burns and maybe Horn but 2011 was without both Beason and TD) and the 2011 staff had way more overall coaching experience. 

2010 was a product of abysmal QB play and lame duck coaching way worse than last year. The rest of that roster was solid, especially the defense.

I hate to say it, but that sounds like the current team if you're getting technical. But the defense is returning the majority of their starters and no big injuries yet (sans the RG position). But Clausen/Moore was probably worse than Mayfield/Darnold from last year.